The Student Room Group

M3 Edexcel Circular Motion

Questions: https://gyazo.com/2d48bb53f461f66a81cecc79ab29f34c
Solutions: https://gyazo.com/cb86e298607f034035579e1a6ff93b41
My question: For their answer to Qc) I get what it means when theta = 0 and cos theta will have its max value. But why does T have minimum value when cos (theta) = 2/3, surely the minimum value of cos (theta) could be lower than 2/3?
Reply 1
Original post by Nerrad
Questions: https://gyazo.com/2d48bb53f461f66a81cecc79ab29f34c
Solutions: https://gyazo.com/cb86e298607f034035579e1a6ff93b41
My question: For their answer to Qc) I get what it means when theta = 0 and cos theta will have its max value. But why does T have minimum value when cos (theta) = 2/3, surely the minimum value of cos (theta) could be lower than 2/3?


I think you can find this from the velocity equation on a general point. My first thought is to check v > 0 [v in terms of theta].
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 2
Original post by aymanzayedmannan

I think you can find this from the velocity equation on a general point. My first thought is to check v > 0 [v in terms of theta].

But if you look at the velocity equation on a general point from Qa and Qb, none of them implies that theta = arccos(2/3)?
Reply 3
Original post by Nerrad
But if you look at the velocity equation on a general point from Qa and Qb, none of them implies that theta = arccos(2/3)?


That's what I'm saying - you have your velocity equation in terms of theta and gl, correct? Set that equation > 0. You'll see that you get cos(theta) > 2/3, the condition required for circular motion to occur.
Reply 4
Original post by aymanzayedmannan
That's what I'm saying - you have your velocity equation in terms of theta and gl, correct? Set that equation > 0. You'll see that you get cos(theta) > 2/3, the condition required for circular motion to occur.


Ok thanks fam.
Reply 5
Original post by Nerrad
Ok thanks fam.


By conservation of energy, we have 12mU212mV2=mgl(1cosθ)V2=2gl3(3cosθ2)\frac{1}{2}mU^{2} - \frac{1}{2}mV^{2} =mgl\left ( 1-\cos \theta \right )\Longleftrightarrow V^{2} = \frac{2gl}{3}\left ( 3\cos \theta -2 \right ), giving us an expression for velocity when the particle has turned an arbitrary angle θ\theta made with the downward vertical.

We know that Fc=mV2rFcV2\mathrm{F_{c}} = \frac{mV^{2}}{r} \Rightarrow \mathrm{F_{c}} \propto V^{2}. This means that the magnitude of the centripetal force depends on V2, so for there to be any centripetal force V2>0V^{2} > 0 must hold true.

Thus, we have: 2gl(3cosθ2)3>0cosθ>23(cosθ)min=23\displaystyle \frac{2gl\left ( 3\cos \theta -2 \right )}{3} > 0 \Longleftrightarrow \cos \theta > \frac{2}{3} \Rightarrow \boxed{\left(\cos \theta \right)_{\text{min}} = \frac{2}{3}}.

Sorry for the vague explanation last night - was on my phone and it was late!
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by aymanzayedmannan
By conservation of energy, we have 12mU212mV2=mgl(1cosθ)V2=2gl3(3cosθ2)\frac{1}{2}mU^{2} - \frac{1}{2}mV^{2} =mgl\left ( 1-\cos \theta \right )\Longleftrightarrow V^{2} = \frac{2gl}{3}\left ( 3\cos \theta -2 \right ), giving us an expression for velocity when the particle has turned an arbitrary angle θ\theta made with the downward vertical.

We know that Fc=mV2rFcV2\mathrm{F_{c}} = \frac{mV^{2}}{r} \Longleftrightarrow \mathrm{F_{c}} \propto V^{2}. This means that the magnitude of the centripetal force depends on V2, so for there to be any centripetal force V2>0V^{2} > 0 must hold true.

Thus, we have: 2gl(3cosθ2)3>0cosθ>23(cosθ)min=23\displaystyle \frac{2gl\left ( 3\cos \theta -2 \right )}{3} > 0 \Longleftrightarrow \cos \theta > \frac{2}{3} \Rightarrow \boxed{\left(\cos \theta \right)_{\text{min}} = \frac{2}{3}}.

Sorry for the vague explanation last night - was on my phone and it was late!

Thank you this is exactly what I needed
Reply 7
Original post by aymanzayedmannan

We know that Fc=mV2rFcV2\mathrm{F_{c}} = \frac{mV^{2}}{r} \Longleftrightarrow \mathrm{F_{c}} \propto V^{2}.


Bit of pedantry here, but better nip this in the bud before it becomes a habit. :tongue:

First off, using \iff is a lot easier:     \iff than \Longleftrightarrow \Longleftrightarrow which looks the same.

Second off, when you're using the     \iff sign, then you're saying that the two statements are equivalent.

i.e: you're saying that F=mv2rF = \frac{mv^2}{r} means that FV2F \propto V^2 (this bit is true)

But you're also saying that FV2F \propto V^2 means that F=mv2rF = \frac{mv^2}{r}. (this bit isn't true, just because it's proportional doesn't mean it's proportional to the mass and radius too)

So, you want to say F=mv2rFV2F= \frac{mv^2}{r} \Rightarrow F \propto V^2.
Reply 8
Original post by Zacken
Bit of pedantry here, but better nip this in the bud before it becomes a habit. :tongue:

First off, using \iff is a lot easier:     \iff than \Longleftrightarrow \Longleftrightarrow which looks the same.

Second off, when you're using the     \iff sign, then you're saying that the two statements are equivalent.

i.e: you're saying that F=mv2rF = \frac{mv^2}{r} means that FV2F \propto V^2 (this bit is true)

But you're also saying that FV2F \propto V^2 means that F=mv2rF = \frac{mv^2}{r}. (this bit isn't true, just because it's proportional doesn't mean it's proportional to the mass and radius too)

So, you want to say F=mv2rFV2F= \frac{mv^2}{r} \Rightarrow F \propto V^2.


Ah yes, thanks for that! Apologies for abusing notation. :colondollar: I typically use only right arrow in written form.
Reply 9
Original post by aymanzayedmannan
Ah yes, thanks for that! Apologies for abusing notation. :colondollar: I typically use only right arrow in written form.


No worries, it certainly does look neater, I must admit. :lol:

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