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Germany's Merkel OKs possible prosecution of comic for insulting Turkey's Erdogan

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/15/europe/germany-erdogan-joke-prosecution/

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I actually hate her
Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob
I actually hate her


I just hope that she is around long enough (she is no spring chicken) to see the carnage, destruction and death that she has brought upon her country.
This is unacceptable behaviour for any leader. To infringe on the freedom of speech of any individual goes against anything she has preached in the past.

As someone who had a great deal of admiration and respect for her in the past, I am seriously starting to question what has gotten into her. I do wonder if the pressure of political leadership has contributed to her losing her 'marbles'.
Original post by KingBradly


Germany is falling further and further behind in the freedom stakes. Berlin five years ago really was where it's at, but I think the world has moved on

They seem to possess the most cringeworthy mix of political correctness with extremely conservative social values. Thus you have them inviting in a million refugees while refusing their own gay citizens the right to marry.

Oh and I love how the SDP head described the law as being against "insulting a majesty". Don't they know any French? (lese majestie.. and of course this puts Germany on a par with Thailand that regularly prosecutes people for insulting the king)
(edited 8 years ago)
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Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
Germany is falling further and further behind in the freedom stakes. Berlin five years ago really was where it's at, but I think the world has moved on

They seem to possess the most cringeworthy mix of political correctness with extremely conservative social values. Thus you have them inviting in a million refugees while refusing their own gay citizens the right to marry.

Oh and I love how the SDP head described the law as being against "insulting a majesty". Don't they know any French? (lese majestie.. and of course this puts Germany on a par with Thailand that regularly prosecutes people for insulting the king)


I can't think of a worse mix.
Much though I loathe Merkel's stance on migration, not interfering in a judicial process seems like common sense to me. Even if he is prosecuted, then that is a fundamental flaw in the German legal system, and his conviction could be a trigger to changing that.
It's a 19C law, so it is the law, however obscure/unknown. SHe also has difficult political consderations to take into account. Finally, she has pledged to repeal it this year.
You may not agree with it but that's German law. It's up to the Germans to amend their laws to allow for proper freedom of expression.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Freedom from government interference dictates that Merkel can't veto any prosecution. This case should be dealt with in court, and Merkel (and anyone else with multiple functioning brain cells) knows it will be thrown out of court. It also appeases the Turkish government.


I'm not saying Merkel should necessarily interfere in the law (except the President of Germany does have a power of pardon and so she could advise him to exercise it).

I'm saying that the fact Germany still has this law on the books is indicative of its somewhat authoritarian political culture
Original post by tengentoppa
Much though I loathe Merkel's stance on migration, not interfering in a judicial process seems like common sense to me. Even if he is prosecuted, then that is a fundamental flaw in the German legal system, and his conviction could be a trigger to changing that.


There's no reason why Merkel shouldn't "interfere" by advising the German President to issue a pardon for this "crime" where a prosecution would clearly be contrary to that citizen's rights under the ECHR

The law should be repealed, but this citizen should not be sacrificed to puerile and superficial legalism
Original post by WBZ144
You may not agree with it but that's German law.


Err, yes; the OP was expressing an opinion, as was I. Are you saying we're not allowed to do so? If not, then exactly what is your comment saying?

There's something nauseating about seeing TSRians abase themselves by mewling, "Oh well it's the German law therefore you shouldn't criticise".
How does she insulted Erdogan? Link?
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
Err, yes; the OP was expressing an opinion, as was I. Are you saying we're not allowed to do so? If not, then exactly what is your comment saying?

There's something nauseating about seeing TSRians abase themselves by mewling, "Oh well it's the German law therefore you shouldn't criticise".


Where did I say that you shouldn't criticise? I was just making the point that this can't all be pinned on Merkel; she didn't write the legislation that supports Erdogan's right to pursue a criminal prosecution. It was a tough decision at the end of the day.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Freedom from government interference dictates that Merkel can't veto any prosecution. This case should be dealt with in court, and Merkel (and anyone else with multiple functioning brain cells) knows it will be thrown out of court. It also appeases the Turkish government.


Authorisation is necessary for a case to be filed with the courts. In this case, Merkel could have rejected the request based on human rights. I grant that she will attempt to have the Act removed from the criminal code.

I fear, however, that she needs Erdogan to solve the migrant crisis (a crisis that she has worsened). So, I stand by the fact that she has been incredibly reckless in all of this.
Original post by TheArtofProtest
How about the fact that it would invite every Holocaust denier to petition Merkel for the same, or is it your position that the illegality of certain expressions is detestable and should be challenged under the freedom of speech principle, whilst simultaneously maintaining that particular expressions in relation to a historic event is a valid excuse for the curtailment of that very freedom of speech principle which you seem to be arguing for?


What are you talking about? I haven't even mentioned Holocaust denial.

In any case, I oppose laws against Holocaust Denial. It is a revolting, ahistorical belief driven by bigotry, but I don't agree that there should be an official government-sanctioned history for which people will be punished if they disagree.

It seems you're arguing against a view I don't hold which makes your confected outrage seem particularly funny.
Original post by Aceadria
Authorisation is necessary for a case to be filed with the courts. In this case, Merkel could have rejected the request based on human rights. I grant that she will attempt to have the Act removed from the criminal code.

I fear, however, that she needs Erdogan to solve the migrant crisis (a crisis that she has worsened). So, I stand by the fact that she has been incredibly reckless in all of this.


It's regrettable we're even in the position of having to rely on Turkey in this way. Europe has sufficient military capacity to prevent refugees from crossing over into Greece, it should be used.

If Turkey continues to destabilise Syria and support Islamist groups, the West should cut off military sales to them.
Original post by WBZ144
Where did I say that you shouldn't criticise? I was just making the point that this can't all be pinned on Merkel; she didn't write the legislation that supports Erdogan's right to pursue a criminal prosecution. It was a tough decision at the end of the day.


She has been the Chancellor of Germany since 2005, she has made no moves to repeal the legislation. Thankfully she has announced her government will do so, so all that remains to be done is to ensure that this individual does not face prosecution, or if he does that he receives an immediate pardon for it
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
She has been the Chancellor of Germany since 2005, she has made no moves to repeal the legislation. Thankfully she has announced her government will do so, so all that remains to be done is to ensure that this individual does not face prosecution, or if he does that he receives an immediate pardon for it


There are some questionable UK legislations as well which have not been repealed because people are under the impression that they are no longer relevant and that no one will attempt to make use of them. I doubt that Merkel foresaw a case such as this one, but it is a good thing that the legislation will be repealed in the near future.
Original post by The_Opinion
I just hope that she is around long enough (she is no spring chicken) to see the carnage, destruction and death that she has brought upon her country.


We haven't hit the eject button on flight Eurowings just yet.

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