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Switzerland Suspends Citizenship process for Muslim Family

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Original post by HAnwar
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.


Out of interest, would you feel the same way if a Western family's citizenship application was put on hold in the Middle East because the authorities received reports that females of the family were not covering up sufficiently in public?
As a British Muslim, I find this story deeply saddening as Muslims sure do not make living in a Western Society easy for themselves and present Islam as being overly regulated by rules, rather than True and real Islam. True and Real Islam is the belief that God's mercy has no limit, his ability to oversee everything in the world has no limit and his ability to know what is in the hearts and minds of the people has no limit, thus, if these boys had reluctantly conformed to the Swiss culture with no intent nor desire to do so, but simply out of courtesy and politeness, I cannot see a Merciful God ever holding them accountable. Muslims should remember that we are obligated to present Islam as a religion of peace and not a religion that fuels hatred and separation. Muslims are also taught to respect the laws of the land they live, or else go somewhere else because God has made this earth so vast for a reason.

However some other points to note are, is a refusal to participate in a cultural practice evidence of disrespect towards it? I also think it is unacceptable for the Swiss authorities to firstly authorise something and later go back on their word, as much as these boys haven't done themselves any favours by their actions, the Swiss authorities do not look squeaky clean either, had the parents of these boys been told that it would not go down well at all if they refused to shake hands, the course of events to have followed may have been different.

In response to the narrow minded comments about how the desire to not shake hands with a woman is backward, I ask, since when did the West establish itself as the pioneers of a progressive way of life? When they brainwashed women into believing that by taking their clothes off they were being liberated? Such comments are a clear example of
"We Know Best" syndrome.
Original post by Anna0987
I ask, since when did the West establish itself as the pioneers of a progressive way of life?


Almost all of the top-ranked countries in the Human Development Index can be described as "Western" (Switzerland is in third place).

When they brainwashed women into believing that by taking their clothes off they were being liberated? Such comments are a clear example of


How are Western women brainwashed into believing that? The only time I see women with very few clothes on is when they are on the beach or the odd trashy girl on a night out. It can hardly be said that all Western women take the view that getting their kit off is an act of liberation.
what the actual flip, ik know we live in the damn 21st century but these boys have been taught what they are taught, stop getting so bloody deep! so a muslim cant carry out their flipping teachings, but everyone else can call muslims terrorists, idiots, gays, peverts and so many more but we cant retaliate. what the actual ****! i would love to see a massive outbreak for a similar thing the other way round, but nope not good enough for the public, we need to make sure they hate on muslims beliefs- i dont bloody care about other peoples beliefs and stories, i dont care if you believe jesus died on the cross or not or anything else, nobody makes a massive deal out of that, so chill your damn beans fam, the kids didnt shake the womans bloody damn hand- petty af in my opinion to have an outbreak over that-we have more inportant stuff to deal with
Original post by Grand High Witch
Almost all of the top-ranked countries in the Human Development Index can be described as "Western" (Switzerland is in third place).



How are Western women brainwashed into believing that? The only time I see women with very few clothes on is when they are on the beach or the odd trashy girl on a night out. It can hardly be said that all Western women take the view that getting their kit off is an act of liberation.


We can go round in circles with this:
Q1) Who produced this human development index?
Q2) Please define human development, because what you may perceive as development I could regard as backwardness.

Point: appreciate differences because WE the West certainly do not know best.

Switch on the TV and take a walk through a busy street full of nightclubs, is it the odd trashy girl or is trashy tending as the norm these days. Jeremy Kyle Nation, British Values, Proud much?
Original post by ODES_PDES
I did not know that Muslims are not allowed to shake female hands.
Why?


Because Islam generally doesn't tolerate social mixing between a female and a male if the male is not her mahram (a man she cannot marry, ie. her brother, her father etc). But most Western Muslims aren't even aware of that and most of them don't follow that 'rule'. I'm not aware of a religious scripture prohibiting this, I'm pretty sure it's a custom and one that is pretty much medieval in Europe
Original post by sfaraj
these boys have been taught what they are taught, stop getting so bloody deep!


The motto of those content with ignorance, in a nutshell.

so a muslim cant carry out their flipping teachings, but everyone else can call muslims terrorists, idiots, gays, peverts and so many more but we cant retaliate.


The Swiss authorities haven't done any of that. Moreover, I think you'll find that calling somebody 'gay' as an insult is more commonly done by Muslims than to them.

i would love to see a massive outbreak for a similar thing the other way round, but nope not good enough for the public


Funnily enough, this is exactly the sort of thing that happens in many Muslim-majority countries. It's simply accepted as the way things are; people don't go over there and throw tantrums when the authorities don't cater to their every whim.

we have more inportant stuff to deal with


This is whataboutery, pure and simple.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Anna0987
We can go round in circles with this:
Q1) Who produced this human development index?
Q2) Please define human development, because what you may perceive as development I could regard as backwardness.


That was my objective contribution. What objective contribution do you have to prove your implication that the West is not a "pioneer of a progressive way of life"?

Point: appreciate differences because WE the West certainly do not know best.


Probably not in every area, no, but the Human Development Index is the closest thing to objectively showing that the West is generally progressive in most areas.

Switch on the TV and take a walk through a busy street full of nightclubs, is it the odd trashy girl or is trashy tending as the norm these days. Jeremy Kyle Nation, British Values, Proud much?


How is that a sign of backwardness? These girls choose to dress in that way - yes they may look challenged in the fashion department, but they are just exercising choice in what they wear and are not harming anyone.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Anna0987
"We Know Best" syndrome.


As opposed to "Allah know best" syndrome, which is obviously better :smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile
How about nobody knows best and such things as tolerance and freedom of choice or am I being silly for believing the West championed democracy :-|
I don't understand the big deal- just because they didn't shake a female's hand doesn't mean they can't bring any valuable substance to the world. What were they supposed to do? Integrate into a Western society immediately upon arrival? They clearly were brought up in a conservative Muslim household/society in which gender mixing wasn't their custom. Not everyone was brought up with 'western' customs it's not that big a deal
Original post by HAnwar
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.


exactly, it *is* stupid - they should have shaken hands and not acted like a bunch of backwards regressive cavedwellers
Original post by chemting
As opposed to "Allah know best" syndrome, which is obviously better :smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile


I wonder where this recent spike in people on TSR who are so full of contempt for the West (and who can't possibly be living outside segregated communities, given the stereotypes they hold of what Western culture is like) and so full of admiration for conservative Islam is coming from. :holmes:
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by BubbleBoobies
exactly, it *is* stupid - they should have shaken hands and not acted like a bunch of backwards regressive cavedwellers

Yes very stupid to make such a big deal out of the boys not shaking hands.
Original post by HAnwar
Yes very stupid to make such a big deal out of the boys not shaking hands.


surely shaking hands is a basic sign of respect between two people though. islam shouldn't be interpreted in a way that causes a lack of respect, right? a religion "of peace" shouldn't be like that at all.
Original post by Grand High Witch
That was my objective contribution. What objective contribution do you have to prove your implication that the West is not a "pioneer of a progressive way of life"?



Probably not in every area, no, but the Human Development Index is the closest thing to objectively showing that the West is generally progressive in most areas.



How is that a sign of backwardness? These girls choose to dress in that way - yes they may look challenged in the fashion department, but they are just exercising choice in what they wear and are not harming anyone.


Re-read my post, I didn't say it was backward, it is a clear example of how the West do not have it right all the time. That's my point, she is exercising choice, a choice that the majority would disagree with, a choice nonetheless. She is not hurting anyone? I think she is clearly hurting the basic principles of morality, not something I want my children to grow up seeing.

Freedom of choice applies across the board.

You've misunderstood my post in that the point i am making is individual choices and differences make the world what it is, we should appreciate and not dictate what is acceptable based on the human development index which was produced by the West in any event. "Here's a stat we created to prove we know it all".

Go and research how many Human Rights infringements the West is being investigated for by Human Rights Watch to get an idea of exactly how progressive the West is.
Original post by Reader106
What were they supposed to do? Integrate into a Western society immediately upon arrival?


You're clearly unfamiliar with the strictness of Swiss nationality law if you think that Swiss citizenship can seriously be applied for 'upon arrival.' :tongue:

they clearly were brought up in a conservative Muslim household/society in which gender mixing wasn't their custom. Not everyone was brought up with 'western' customs it's not that big a deal


Which is perhaps a good reason for them to spend a few more years assimilating before gaining citizenship and the right to pass it on to children whose upbringing might otherwise also be just as conservative and self-segregationist as their parents' was. :holmes:
(edited 8 years ago)
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Original post by digistar_100
Ridiculous from the Swiss. In other countries it's "culture" to greet someone with a kiss/peck on either cheek. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, why force an ultimately meaningless action of a greeting like that on someone. What's wrong with "Hello how are you. Im fine with a smiley face." Hope this gets overturned.


Then don't go to countries whose cultures make you uncomfortable. Simple.
Rather than integrating with the norms of the nation, they are imposing theirs. Their freedom to believe what they want is not in question here; their loyalty to the nation is. Good job, Bern.

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