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E.U Leave or Remain: limiting E.U migration to the U.K

Eurosceptics suggest that leaving the E.U shall entail a reduction in immigration; Euro supporters suggest that leaving or staying in the E.U shall make no difference given that we could sign agreement arrangements, similar to the likes of Norway and Switzerland, that could allow immigration to the U.K to continue at current levels, or could be limited through placing the same restrictions on them as are placed on non E.U migrants.

Could leaving the E.U affect immigration? If so, in what way? Would staying in the E.U affect immigration levels? If so, in what way? What do you believe shall be the best solution, either staying or leaving, to the immigration problems you think exist, and why?

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Migrants to the UK are more likely to work than Britons, (claim less benefits).
Population is a global problem not national, so the only way to fight it is to encourage people to have less kids, (to those who say "ageing population", having more kids to pay taxes just means you need even more when they get old, its a pyramid scheme)

I am for in.
We are not part of Schengen, so we have control of our borders already. We can kick out any non-UK EU citizen who does not get work or residence within a particular time-frame, and eject any convicted of a crime.
Ofc it could affect migration, because we would have control of policy. We wouldnt have to defer to the EU but could decide on our own immigration policies in particular with respect to how we deal with people from the EU, where 80% of migration comes There is ofc a flipside whicch means others in the EY will treat people from the UK accordingly.

Population isnt just a global problem and whether or not there are too many people in Africa, doesnt get past the fact that some feel here are too many people in the UK and they wish to control how many more arrive here.
Migration could be reduced if we could leave the EU and elect a UKIP majority which isn't going to happen. Boris and Gove have been quite clear there will still be plenty of immigration coming and open Europe have said it may even be increased to stabilise the UK economy post brexit.
Even if we leave the EU and "have better control over our immigration policies" do you really think people coming from countries involved in civil wars and constant terrorist attacks will care? The same number of people will want to come whether it be illegal or not.

Criminals will always find another way to break the law, I loosely call illegal immigrants criminals because someone fleeing their own country to come illegally to another to be safe should not really have the criminal stigma attached to them.
Original post by 999tigger
Ofc it could affect migration, because we would have control of policy. We wouldnt have to defer to the EU but could decide on our own immigration policies in particular with respect to how we deal with people from the EU, where 80% of migration comes There is ofc a flipside whicch means others in the EY will treat people from the UK accordingly..


No free trade without free movement
Original post by DorianGrayism
No free trade without free movement


As I understand it you can get free trade without free movement but you don't get full access to the single market. This has been cited as the Canada model but it's crap because it doesn't include services which is are main industry by a large margin,

As the Stronger INs recent video shows the OUT side simply don't have a clue and have lost the economic argument. Expect them to ramp up scare stories of mass immigration in the coming weeks to compensate
Original post by DorianGrayism
No free trade without free movement


I think thats what will happen, which a lot of those voting out havent taken onboard. It will still get past benefit restrictions though.
Reply 9
I cannot wait for the Referendum to come cuz of these threads
Original post by Tyreke
Do you have statistics to support your claim that migrants are more likely to work than Britains? Please support such a bold claim with evidence.

Population IS a national problem, England is the most densley populated country in Europe. Hence the housing crisis, strain on the NHS and reduction of green belt land. In what way will remaining in the EU give us a better position to tackle these problems?


England isn't a country. The UK is.

The strain on the NHS is directly as a result of underinvestment despite an increasing elderly population.

Housing prices are going up because Houses are not being built with the lowest number of houses since WW2.
Original post by DorianGrayism
England isn't a country. The UK is.

The strain on the NHS is directly as a result of underinvestment despite an increasing elderly population.

Housing prices are going up because Houses are not being built with the lowest number of houses since WW2.


The UK is a group of countries united into one sovereign state, England being one of those countries.

I agree with you on the rest though.:smile:
Original post by Tyreke
England is a country, fact.

Yes, houses are not being built at a high enough rate to meet demand, but what is driving the demand??


Multiple factors. That is why housing prices are rising in areas with low migration.

Original post by Tyreke

Mass immigration into the UK is driving the housing crisis. Here are the facts. Net migration into to the UK was 323,000 last year, per government reports. Houses in britain are being built at a rate of approximately 150,000 depending on the year. This is creating a squeeze on the housing shortage facing Britains. ?


Right. Like I said before, record low housing building rates since WW2.

Just build more houses.

Original post by Tyreke

Yes, there are other contributors such as foreign investement/holiday homes, but these are contained to a limited number of houses in exclusive areas of the country. Should we build and build and build until there are no more farms to grow crops to feed our country?


Well, Farming is heavily subsidised by the EU. If you want to leave the EU, then no farming.
Original post by Tyreke
I agree, the housing crisis has more than one contributing factor, but one factor is contributing vastly more than others.

'Just build more houses'. Where? Shall we encroach more and more into greenbelt land? This would result in more floods, more harmful chemicals in the environment. Less land to grow crops to feed a rising population.


Plenty of brown belt land.

I love how everyone is all of a sudden in love with the country. Is it actually that valuable? No.

Original post by Tyreke

'Well, Farming is heavily subsidised by the EU. If you want to leave the EU, then no farming'

I'm not debating about the economics behind farming, I'm asking where will the increased land needed to feed an increased population come from if the greenbelt land previously available has now been built on.

No EU, no farming? How do you think we coped before the EU?


Well, either the UK Government will have to subsidise it or the EU will.

Why is it the Farmers Unions are all Pro EU?

Original post by Tyreke

I reply, No EU, no loss of £8.5bn/year.

( We 'put' £13bn into the EU/year, and inturn we 'get back' £4.5bn. There is an £8.5bn gap here, I suggest an amount of this can be used to subsidise farming in the UK if we require, don't you?)
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/


Another Brexit Lie.

We would pay that whether we are in the EU or not.

Unless you are planning not to trade with the EU at all, then it is failure of a point.
Original post by Tyreke
Do you have statistics to support your claim that migrants are more likely to work than Britains? Please support such a bold claim with evidence.

Population IS a national problem, England is the most densley populated country in Europe. Hence the housing crisis, strain on the NHS and reduction of green belt land. In what way will remaining in the EU give us a better position to tackle these problems?


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f01bf602-6429-11e4-bac8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz46T02xXGw

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11207980/Polish-migrants-almost-20pc-more-likely-to-work-than-Britons.html

population is a GLOBAL problem

and the starin on the NHS is the cuts being handed out to fund tax-breaks for the rich. Im not saying we shouldnt control immigration, im just saying we (most countries) need to be encouraging people to have less kids, in general)
Original post by Tyreke
Plenty of brownbelt land.
How does one grow crops on brownbelt land?]


Talking about houses.

Original post by Tyreke

Is it actually that valuable? No.
If growing food, preventing environmental disasters such as flooding and limiting harmful toxins in our air that are killing people aren't important then I question a person's priorities. ]


Sorry but building in the middle of the country isn't going to lead to flooding.



Original post by Tyreke

Enlighten me. Honestly, enlighten me, I am unware of why we would pay that whether we are in the EU or not.


For the same reason that Norway pays. The EU isn't a charity.
Original post by Tyreke
Talking about houses
At the moment Brownfield sites in the UK have the potential to support the building of 976,000. At current rates this will provide for nearly 8 years worth of building, but only 3.5 years worth of building at a rate the government judge is needed to meet demand. What about after these 4-8 years?
http://www.cpre.org.uk/resources/housing-and-planning/housing/item/3785-from-wasted-space-to-living-spaces.


Build on Greenfield. Plenty of land around cities that is not being used at all.


Original post by Tyreke

Sorry but building in the middle of the country isn't going to lead to flooding.
Yes it will. If you build on a flood plain, or deforest an area to build houses, there is less space for floodwater to drain and less trees to soak up said water.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bfa49cb0-acbf-11e5-b955-1a1d298b6250.html#axzz46T8P8HvC].


There are lots of areas that are not forested or flood plain.


Original post by Tyreke

What reason is that? Genuine question.


Cost of access to the market.
We will end up staying for sure anyway.
Original post by Tyreke
Build on Greenfield. Plenty of land around cities that is not being used at all.
This debate has come full circle and so doesn't seem productive. You say build on greenbelt land, I propose why it is unwise to do so. You say build on brownfield land, I say this will last a few years, but what then? You say build on greenbelt land.]


and I suggested your objections to building on Greenfield were not valid.

There are plenty of areas around cities that are not ecologically vital that can be expanded into.

As people become older then the population will have to expand to meet the obligations of looking after an older population.
It is indeed impossible to limit EU migration while in the EU. A remainer got that question in the EU debate and she had no idea how to answer

:[video]https://youtu.be/SuizZM6M0d4?t=1h23m52s[/video]

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