Switzerland Suspends Citizenship process for Muslim Family

Original post by Alba2013

Off topic.

This is a very neat form, maybe the muslim who ate a sausage roll should fill it too :smile:

Or those who get offended over a few cartoons :biggrin:

Reply 262

troubadour.

Original post by Leukocyte

Ignoring the rest. I wonder why.

To be truthfully honest no one really cares if the were refused a handshake.

I wonder if you would accept that argument if it was made about a perceived slight felt by a Muslim person.

As I said in an earlier post, most of the Muslim members dismissing this as 'petty' or 'irrelevant' would be doing the precise opposite if the situation was reversed, because they are not (and you are not) making some principled stand for the right of people to unlimited religious understanding when it comes to citizenship applications. No, this is simply a case of tribalism: the tendency to defend one's co-religionists no matter what the circumstances.

Reply 263

Original post by isitisisitis

I'm exercising my social imagination

In other words I'm making **** up as the facts are uncomfortable for me and openly admitting I do not see sexism as an issue would make me look like a dick

Got it

Has little relevance to the issue though.

Reply 264

Original post by Al-farhan

Perhaps she should fill the hurt feelings

No one gets hurt by not shaking hands, and by you comparing racism which can lead to death and mass murder to not shaking hands with someone.
That is beyond stupid.

Similarly the family can fill one out when their citzienship claim is rejected. If they made an effort to integrate they wouldnt have to deal with this. If they cnat be bothered to respect the values and customs of the country they seek to join, the one thats giving them benefits, free education, job opportunities and a safe place to live, then they need to find another country.

Reply 265

Original post by The_Internet

It isn't. I was just pointing out that on occasion I wouldn't shake someone's hand and it wouldn't have any thing to do with religion or race or whatever else.

Except in this case it is relevant, its to do with religion and can be viewed as an unwillingness to integrate.

Your case is different because you arent applying for citizenship.

Reply 266

The_Internet

Original post by 999tigger

Except in this case it is relevant, its to do with religion and can be viewed as an unwillingness to integrate.

Your case is different because you arent applying for citizenship.

I just freaking said it isn't relevant. I made the comment when referring to baconandsauce's comment. Do you exisr just to antagonise people?

Reply 267

Original post by TheArtofProtest

Why should the government dictate whether a person should integrate or not?

As long as they get up, go to work, pay their taxes and break no laws, the government shouldn't give two hoots about them and their societal relations.

Because the government represent the people, the group who these are trying to join. They set the rules on what sort of people they want. If you cant respect the customs and values of being Swiss, then why do these people want to join? they should find another country.

Having a cohesive society with shared values is essential, they dont want a state within a state. So yes i can see why it matters very much to them. Not for outsiders to dictate what the rules should be.

Reply 268

Original post by BaconandSauce

And in English?

Conversing with you is like talking to a brick wall. I understand why you may wish to ignore the other reasons :smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 269

isitisisitis

Original post by BaconandSauce

I've explained to you that the prevailing issue here in my view is cultural assimilation rather than sexism owing to fact that the issue of asylum has a greater cultural impact in this case than the single sexist incident.

As you are saying that what I say is in your words '****' and that I am a 'dick' I'm going to go ahead and say that I think there is enough evidence on the table to warrant me expressing the view that you are:

a bigoted fen-sucked harpy whose tongue outvenoms all worms of Nile. You talk greasily; your lips grow foul. Would the fountain of your mind were clear again, that I might water an ass at it.

Reply 270

Original post by BaconandSauce

I would as it would be showing me disrespect (so your 'no one' argument is clearly and demonstrably false)

You're contradicting yourself there. Why can't you respect them? It's not like everyone would refuse to shake hands. Just some. My argument isn't solely based on whether they care or not but the fact that refusing to shake a teacher's hand is no rule and it should not be imposed on everyone.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 271

Original post by 999tigger

Why isnt it sexist? The reason they wont shake hands is based on their sex? Albeit its based on their religion. Uts fine if they wnat to discriminate against women, its also fine if the Swiss decide they dont approve and dont want them as citizens.
sexismˈsɛksɪz(ə)m/nounnoun: sexism

prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex

Well the Swiss are wrong. Shaking hands doesn't have to correlate to religion or race. You're so obsessed with religion, what is your problem?

Original post by 999tigger

In this case the Swiss do and they find it relevant for all the reaons previously explained on this thread about principle, sexism and willingness to integrate. If you arent willing to integrate, then why ask to join?

I'm not asking to join. Tbf the Swiss have a terrible culture. It's truly sad to see people come up with bizzare excuses to say it's perfectly correct to not grant him citizenship.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 272

Original post by Leukocyte

Well the Swiss are wrong. Shaking hands doesn't have to correlate to religion or race. You're so obsessed with religion, what is your problem?

I'm not asking to join. Tbf the Swiss have a terrible culture. It's truly sad to see people come up with bizzare excuses to say it's perfectly correct to not grant him citizenship.

Posted from TSR Mobile

1. Im not obssessed with religion at all. I do see the point that the swiss have and other people are trying to trivialise. You wnat to join their gang then you have to abide by their riles of entrance. Simple as that. In this instance the shaking hands does correlate to religion, becayse thats the reason they gave.

2. Citizenship is a privilege not a right. the swiss have one of the highest standards of living and one of the best qualities of life in the world. I can see why they would want to keep it that way, by having people who share their values and are willing to integrate. Its the fact you cnat appreciate that , which is more bizarre. If they were that bad then why give them a free education and grant them asylum? They could have simply turned him and his family away.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 273

troubadour.

Original post by Leukocyte

My argument isn't solely based on whether they care or not but the fact that refusing to shake a teacher's hand is no rule and it should not be imposed on everyone.

Posted from TSR Mobile

It isn't being imposed on everyone, unless you think that Swiss citizenship is a right of all foreign nationals in Switzerland and that, in alluding that this is something of a condition for citizenship, they are implicitly having this imposed on them.

Reply 274

Original post by The_Internet

. Do you exisr just to antagonise people?

Wasn't that the point of your post in the first place

Reply 275

Original post by Hydeman

The rest was irrelevant. Platitudinous statements like, 'there are more important things to complain about' or 'don't know why y'all are crying over it' can easily be dismissed as whataboutery, and I've already done that earlier in the thread. So, no need for me to do so again.

I wonder if you would accept that argument if it was made about a perceived slight felt by a Muslim person.

As I said in an earlier post, most of the Muslim members dismissing this as 'petty' or 'irrelevant' would be doing the precise opposite if the situation was reversed, because they are not (and you are not) making some principled stand for the right of people to unlimited religious understanding when it comes to citizenship applications. No, this is simply a case of tribalism: the tendency to defend one's co-religionists no matter what the circumstances.

Talking out of your arse now? Do carry on typing paragraphs out if that makes you feel better.

Shaking hands does not have to tie in with religion but do keep on waffling.

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Reply 276

The_Internet

Original post by BaconandSauce

Wasn't that the point of your post in the first place

Reply 277

troubadour.

Original post by Leukocyte

Talking out of your arse now? Do carry on typing paragraphs out if that makes you feel better.

A fine counter-argument, that. :rolleyes:

You always were the kind to resort to insults (and poor ones at that -- you consider being able to write in paragraphs a flaw? xD) when you've lost on substance, Mary. :wink:

Shaking hands does not have to tie in with religion but do keep on waffling.

Posted from TSR Mobile

'waffling' -- Not my fault that you can't read. :dontknow:

And no, it doesn't have to be a religious thing, nor have I said it does (nice straw man). The fact of the matter still remains that in this particular case it is religion-based sexism, even if that's of little relevance to the argument of those that support the Swiss authorities that it's an integration issue, not a religion issue. But I suppose reality, in your mind, originates in the rectum. :lol:

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 278