4 Months and Counting - Unemployment Continues
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Original post by Princepieman
Very true. But networking does make life easier, it gives you a chance to figure out what you're expected to showcase during an interview and also, gives you insight into the culture of workplace.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
I fully understand what I'm expected to showcase during an interview, I've done enough reading up & had enough post interview feedback calls. As I said though when put on the spot putting it all together is difficult, and each time I think I've covered a base something else comes up.
Original post by jelly1000
I have managed 6 interviews but I'm rubbish at them, especially when asked a question I was not expecting, they don't reflect my competence in the workplace.
Thinking on your feet and being decisive and articulate are entry-level skills for most, if not all jobs! Of course that will reflect on your potential workplace competence!
And if you've only applied for a handful of jobs in as many months, I don't mean to be rude but that doesn't exactly sound like you are putting in much effort to finding a job.
Take a job, learn the skills to do it well, move up the career ladder. Repeat.
I graduated 10 years ago this summer. My first job was a non-graduate job, I worked hard, showed them what I could do in action rather than on a slip of paper and was promoted umpteen times. These days I'm a trainee teacher.
My peers all got graduate jobs - not one of them stayed in those careers more than a year beyond the graduate scheme.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
Original post by Snow Child
Thinking on your feet and being decisive and articulate are entry-level skills for most, if not all jobs! Of course that will reflect on your potential workplace competence!
And if you've only applied for a handful of jobs in as many months, I don't mean to be rude but that doesn't exactly sound like you are putting in much effort to finding a job.
Take a job, learn the skills to do it well, move up the career ladder. Repeat.
I graduated 10 years ago this summer. My first job was a non-graduate job, I worked hard, showed them what I could do in action rather than on a slip of paper and was promoted umpteen times. These days I'm a trainee teacher.
My peers all got graduate jobs - not one of them stayed in those careers more than a year beyond the graduate scheme.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
And if you've only applied for a handful of jobs in as many months, I don't mean to be rude but that doesn't exactly sound like you are putting in much effort to finding a job.
Take a job, learn the skills to do it well, move up the career ladder. Repeat.
I graduated 10 years ago this summer. My first job was a non-graduate job, I worked hard, showed them what I could do in action rather than on a slip of paper and was promoted umpteen times. These days I'm a trainee teacher.
My peers all got graduate jobs - not one of them stayed in those careers more than a year beyond the graduate scheme.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
She's already said in this thread she is dyspraxic and that is why she struggles to form verbal responses quickly on the spot.
She also nowhere has stated she has only applied for a handful of jobs. Only that she has only gotten 6 interviews. You could apply for 10 jobs and get 6 interviews or you could apply for 200 and still only get 6 interviews. Really depends, and a lot can be down to pure luck as to whether your CV even gets read let alone considered.
Nothing from her posts suggests she isn't trying hard enough. She has a good amount of relevant experience in the sector. She clearly researches the companies in advance, she does mock interviews to practise.
But she is still struggling.
Original post by Princepieman
'A lot easier said than done' is not an excuse, I'm sorry but it's just not.
I've been networking, reaching out to people and having coffees with bankers, consultants, even senior professionals etc since I was 15. I guarantee that if you actually take the time out to send people on Linkedin personalised messages or reach out to uni/school alumni, you will get a response. Nothing is going to come into fruition by you sitting down on your bum, typing out the above line. But something WILL come into fruition if you actually try.
Networking is a means of connecting with people and finding common ground. The only way to get better at it is to practice, don't be afraid, just start.
My god people, get some gumption and grit.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I've been networking, reaching out to people and having coffees with bankers, consultants, even senior professionals etc since I was 15. I guarantee that if you actually take the time out to send people on Linkedin personalised messages or reach out to uni/school alumni, you will get a response. Nothing is going to come into fruition by you sitting down on your bum, typing out the above line. But something WILL come into fruition if you actually try.
Networking is a means of connecting with people and finding common ground. The only way to get better at it is to practice, don't be afraid, just start.
My god people, get some gumption and grit.
Posted from TSR Mobile
You don't actually have a job though do you? Aren't you still in school?
Original post by Snow Child
Thinking on your feet and being decisive and articulate are entry-level skills for most, if not all jobs! Of course that will reflect on your potential workplace competence!
And if you've only applied for a handful of jobs in as many months, I don't mean to be rude but that doesn't exactly sound like you are putting in much effort to finding a job.
Take a job, learn the skills to do it well, move up the career ladder. Repeat.
I graduated 10 years ago this summer. My first job was a non-graduate job, I worked hard, showed them what I could do in action rather than on a slip of paper and was promoted umpteen times. These days I'm a trainee teacher.
My peers all got graduate jobs - not one of them stayed in those careers more than a year beyond the graduate scheme.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
And if you've only applied for a handful of jobs in as many months, I don't mean to be rude but that doesn't exactly sound like you are putting in much effort to finding a job.
Take a job, learn the skills to do it well, move up the career ladder. Repeat.
I graduated 10 years ago this summer. My first job was a non-graduate job, I worked hard, showed them what I could do in action rather than on a slip of paper and was promoted umpteen times. These days I'm a trainee teacher.
My peers all got graduate jobs - not one of them stayed in those careers more than a year beyond the graduate scheme.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
I'm fine in a workplace environment- I've been volunteering for several months now at a charity and I have no problems with anything I'm given to do and in communicating with staff- I have no problems saying things I can see like 'this isn't working, do you want me to try this' when I have something to go off. However thinking new things up is one of my weaknesses, in part I believe because of my dyspraxia and I'm not applying for creative type roles.
I've applied for many more jobs than just 6, each time I apply I look for ways to improve my CV and cover letter, I'm never complacent, however I'm not the quickest writer and can't churn out several applications a day.
You really need to watch 'employable me' which was on the BBC recently - they showed how guys with Autism who aren't good communicators were still able to flourish in the workplace when given the chance to show what they could actually do.
Original post by VeniViciVidi
To be frank, you aren't trying hard enough. Or at least, you're going to have to deal with the source of what is making you freeze.Do you typically find yourself thriving under pressure or are you a worrier?
Original post by SophieSmall
A lot easier said than done, especially when you have no idea what you want to do with your life.I'm doing a biomed degree. And getting work experience in the field is really hard, only I think 5- 10 people out of my 180ish people course managed to get a placement for a placement year. And on top of that I don't think I even want to work in the industry any more. 3 years of this has made me realise I hate lab work and the thought of having to do that 5 days a week is just depressing. But I don't know what else to do or where to even start with figuring out what to do.
Original post by Princepieman
'A lot easier said than done' is not an excuse, I'm sorry but it's just not.I've been networking, reaching out to people and having coffees with bankers, consultants, even senior professionals etc since I was 15. I guarantee that if you actually take the time out to send people on Linkedin personalised messages or reach out to uni/school alumni, you will get a response. Nothing is going to come into fruition by you sitting down on your bum, typing out the above line. But something WILL come into fruition if you actually try.Networking is a means of connecting with people and finding common ground. The only way to get better at it is to practice, don't be afraid, just start.My god people, get some gumption and grit.Posted from TSR Mobile
The assumptions are not only unhelpful but also ignorant to other possibilities and issues.
I enjoy how you start off however, if you could inform us how those networking paid off and what is the most effective way you feel, to attract positive attention would help a great deal.
Original post by jelly1000
I'm fine in a workplace environment- I've been volunteering for several months now at a charity and I have no problems with anything I'm given to do and in communicating with staff- I have no problems saying things I can see like 'this isn't working, do you want me to try this' when I have something to go off. However thinking new things up is one of my weaknesses, in part I believe because of my dyspraxia and I'm not applying for creative type roles.
I've applied for many more jobs than just 6, each time I apply I look for ways to improve my CV and cover letter, I'm never complacent, however I'm not the quickest writer and can't churn out several applications a day.
You really need to watch 'employable me' which was on the BBC recently - they showed how guys with Autism who aren't good communicators were still able to flourish in the workplace when given the chance to show what they could actually do.
I've applied for many more jobs than just 6, each time I apply I look for ways to improve my CV and cover letter, I'm never complacent, however I'm not the quickest writer and can't churn out several applications a day.
You really need to watch 'employable me' which was on the BBC recently - they showed how guys with Autism who aren't good communicators were still able to flourish in the workplace when given the chance to show what they could actually do.
Jelly1000. I feel terrible that a thread aimed at sharing unemployment sorrows and attracting support has resulted in some negative assumptions about your character. I for one think you are most certainly trying to your best ability and indeed just struggeling at what is for some people, a seriously tough hurdle.
Might I suggest, that you actually refer to that in the interview? Actually comment how you don't interview well and you would welcome a different form of assessment to your competency? Also mention what you achieved so far and also sucker punch them by adding you actually did poorly in other interviews (like Uni) but when given the chance, you performed above and beyond expectation.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Snow Child
Thinking on your feet and being decisive and articulate are entry-level skills for most, if not all jobs! Of course that will reflect on your potential workplace competence!
We all have to start somewhere, we're not born with that skills although some maybe gifted to pick up on it quickly. Don't assume that even basic skills don't have some learning curve, they do and some people need time. Additionally, the interview environment is not a true reflection of work-based performance unless of course the job is to interview
Original post by Snow Child
And if you've only applied for a handful of jobs in as many months, I don't mean to be rude but that doesn't exactly sound like you are putting in much effort to finding a job.
You are sounding rude, because it's not clear how many applications are made. I made upwards of 100 this week but I often only speak of some of the ones I'm really excited about but have heard from. Sending your Application is easy but not worth remembering every single one as many you never hear from.
Also take into account that some employers who have their own application process, can sometimes take 1-2.5 hours and that can be very disheartening and it isn't enough to say "well if you really want it".
Original post by Snow Child
Take a job, learn the skills to do it well, move up the career ladder. Repeat.
Far too simplistic ideology of building a career, individual differences alone.
Original post by Snow Child
I graduated 10 years ago this summer. My first job was a non-graduate job, I worked hard, showed them what I could do in action rather than on a slip of paper and was promoted umpteen times. These days I'm a trainee teacher.
This is where an ignorance really shows, opportunity to show what you can do is not always available and it is down to a conversation that some people just simply find difficult. Think about it this way, know anyone who has failed their driving test? I do however, like you're a trainee teacher; I might of failed in my journey and struggled with the bureaucracy. But I do know a thing or two (First class degree in education and got a distinction in my Masters module as well as teaching experiences) please message me anything and don't take this entire message as a personal attack.
Original post by Snow Child
My peers all got graduate jobs - not one of them stayed in those careers more than a year beyond the graduate scheme.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
What I've learnt is this: what you want in a career now might be totally different from what you want in 10 years. If jobs you want are a ten a penny, get one.
Again, a blinding ignorance, talking about getting a job as to get a burger from McDonalds (ok, sometimes that is difficult).
Things aren't as easy for some and things can be tough for others.
Original post by FailedTeacher
IIn all due respects Mr. Moderator, I think you've pre-assumed that one is sitting on their bum and/or is afraid and is going without 'grumption and grit'. I also seriously dislike your italic 'actually'.
The assumptions are not only unhelpful but also ignorant to other possibilities and issues.
I enjoy how you start off however, if you could inform us how those networking paid off and what is the most effective way you feel, to attract positive attention would help a great deal.
The assumptions are not only unhelpful but also ignorant to other possibilities and issues.
I enjoy how you start off however, if you could inform us how those networking paid off and what is the most effective way you feel, to attract positive attention would help a great deal.
Sure, I'm sorry for the assumptative tone, I should have come across as more informative rather than the way I did.
I'll write up what's worked for me, at least, tomorrow.
Again, I do apologise if I made any hasty accusations.
Original post by Princepieman
Sure, I'm sorry for the assumptative tone, I should have come across as more informative rather than the way I did.
I'll write up what's worked for me, at least, tomorrow.
Again, I do apologise if I made any hasty accusations.
I'll write up what's worked for me, at least, tomorrow.
Again, I do apologise if I made any hasty accusations.
No harm no foul for me, you're forgiven <3
Original post by FailedTeacher
In all due respect I don't think you have anywhere close enough to the information you need to make that opinion nor is it particularly supportive towards Jelly1000.Completely agree with you that networking is easier said than done, just getting emailed back is difficult! I feel for you as just as my name suggests, I thought teaching was for me but it perhaps wasn't. HOWEVER, I am looking to mix my Education degree and experiences into another area, business (Educational recruitment for example) as a means of not starting from scratch; is that a possibility for you? Maybe teach?!In all due respects Mr. Moderator, I think you've pre-assumed that one is sitting on their bum and/or is afraid and is going without 'grumption and grit'. I also seriously dislike your italic 'actually'.
The assumptions are not only unhelpful but also ignorant to other possibilities and issues.
I enjoy how you start off however, if you could inform us how those networking paid off and what is the most effective way you feel, to attract positive attention would help a great deal.
Jelly1000. I feel terrible that a thread aimed at sharing unemployment sorrows and attracting support has resulted in some negative assumptions about your character. I for one think you are most certainly trying to your best ability and indeed just struggeling at what is for some people, a seriously tough hurdle.
Might I suggest, that you actually refer to that in the interview? Actually comment how you don't interview well and you would welcome a different form of assessment to your competency? Also mention what you achieved so far and also sucker punch them by adding you actually did poorly in other interviews (like Uni) but when given the chance, you performed above and beyond expectation.
The assumptions are not only unhelpful but also ignorant to other possibilities and issues.
I enjoy how you start off however, if you could inform us how those networking paid off and what is the most effective way you feel, to attract positive attention would help a great deal.
Jelly1000. I feel terrible that a thread aimed at sharing unemployment sorrows and attracting support has resulted in some negative assumptions about your character. I for one think you are most certainly trying to your best ability and indeed just struggeling at what is for some people, a seriously tough hurdle.
Might I suggest, that you actually refer to that in the interview? Actually comment how you don't interview well and you would welcome a different form of assessment to your competency? Also mention what you achieved so far and also sucker punch them by adding you actually did poorly in other interviews (like Uni) but when given the chance, you performed above and beyond expectation.
No worries, its actually been quite nice to challenge peoples assumptions. Tbh I'm not even sure what else they could do instead though? Or if it looks terrible if I say I'm bad at interviews! I always look to mention what I have done though when given the opportunity.
Original post by SophieSmall
She's already said in this thread she is dyspraxic and that is why she struggles to form verbal responses quickly on the spot.
She also nowhere has stated she has only applied for a handful of jobs. Only that she has only gotten 6 interviews. You could apply for 10 jobs and get 6 interviews or you could apply for 200 and still only get 6 interviews. Really depends, and a lot can be down to pure luck as to whether your CV even gets read let alone considered.
Nothing from her posts suggests she isn't trying hard enough. She has a good amount of relevant experience in the sector. She clearly researches the companies in advance, she does mock interviews to practise.
But she is still struggling.
She also nowhere has stated she has only applied for a handful of jobs. Only that she has only gotten 6 interviews. You could apply for 10 jobs and get 6 interviews or you could apply for 200 and still only get 6 interviews. Really depends, and a lot can be down to pure luck as to whether your CV even gets read let alone considered.
Nothing from her posts suggests she isn't trying hard enough. She has a good amount of relevant experience in the sector. She clearly researches the companies in advance, she does mock interviews to practise.
But she is still struggling.
Thanks for this
Networking.
For me this is how I've had success in setting up meetings/phone calls with people in the areas that are of interest to me:
Get on Linkedin
You should fill out your Linkedin with awards, work experience placements, volunteering etc. Make sure each section is bulleted out with a description of what you did give context where possible: i.e. X is an environmental agency tasked with y and z.
This is the simple bit. Set up an account and get adding; add people you know via uni, school, work, prior interviewers, recruiters etc. Just keep dishing out the requests - where possible, I'd annotate them with a small message indicating a connection you have to said person or highlight an area of their profile you want to know more about. The more people you connect with, the more you'll have access to an even wider pool of potential connections. Now, don't just add anyone and everyone, be targeted. Add the people who are associated to your industry area.
The benefits of having more connections are that a) you'll have a visible presense to potential recruiters and/or hiring managers, b) you'll be able to showcase your background and allow for a conversation to take place from this.
Reaching Out
On LinkedIn:
Once you've added people in your area of interest, it's time to commit to opening a conversation. If you share a mutual connection (i.e. an alma mater, a friend) absolutely mention that in your 'opening' line. It should be brief, a succinct: 'Hi there x, I noticed that you also went to y uni. I thought I'd reach out to you, as your career path is of particular interest to me. Would it be possible to talk about your route to z line of work? '
If they don't respond, fine. Give them a few days to a few weeks and then get in touch again. Sure, not everyone will respond and not everyone will want to talk to you but keep chugging away.
They respond, great! Now you should take the conversation to a phone call. Arrange a suitable time for both of you, and just try to ask as many insightful questions as possible on the call. Your goal is to make a good impression on that person.
Via email:
You could find the email format for whichever organisation your target individual works for, or via a common contact.
The email should be short and sweet. Almost a 'cover letter-lite'. A bit about yourself, how you share a common connection, what you're interested in and a call to reply from them. Again, it's a numbers game here so just keep pounding away.
The Ask
Don't ask them about work opportunities or how you can get a job in the first few contact points. Rather, tell them what you've done so far, and ask for advice on how best to position yourself for a similar job to theirs.
By implying that you're in the process (and if you've kept up the rapport from before), they'll keep it in the back of their minds that you're on the look out.
From there, I'd keep in contact regularly just as a check in and they might eventually reach out to you with opportunities. Or, if you're bold enough, you could ask if there is anyone else they're aware of that can be of value to contact.
----------------------------------------------------------
The key here isn't to 'beg' it's to get a foot in the door and a face to a name to people already IN your desired role. They'll give you the right insight and advice that you need to do well, and you'll have a in-road to someone working where you want to be.
I personally think this helps A LOT as you won't just be blindly applying to jobs but rather you'll know what to expect and will have a voice to vouch for you throughout the process.
This has worked for me, and I guess after yesterday, I wanted to help out with something more 'actionable'. Just remember that you have to keep trying - never give up!
For me this is how I've had success in setting up meetings/phone calls with people in the areas that are of interest to me:
Get on Linkedin
You should fill out your Linkedin with awards, work experience placements, volunteering etc. Make sure each section is bulleted out with a description of what you did give context where possible: i.e. X is an environmental agency tasked with y and z.
This is the simple bit. Set up an account and get adding; add people you know via uni, school, work, prior interviewers, recruiters etc. Just keep dishing out the requests - where possible, I'd annotate them with a small message indicating a connection you have to said person or highlight an area of their profile you want to know more about. The more people you connect with, the more you'll have access to an even wider pool of potential connections. Now, don't just add anyone and everyone, be targeted. Add the people who are associated to your industry area.
The benefits of having more connections are that a) you'll have a visible presense to potential recruiters and/or hiring managers, b) you'll be able to showcase your background and allow for a conversation to take place from this.
Reaching Out
On LinkedIn:
Once you've added people in your area of interest, it's time to commit to opening a conversation. If you share a mutual connection (i.e. an alma mater, a friend) absolutely mention that in your 'opening' line. It should be brief, a succinct: 'Hi there x, I noticed that you also went to y uni. I thought I'd reach out to you, as your career path is of particular interest to me. Would it be possible to talk about your route to z line of work? '
If they don't respond, fine. Give them a few days to a few weeks and then get in touch again. Sure, not everyone will respond and not everyone will want to talk to you but keep chugging away.
They respond, great! Now you should take the conversation to a phone call. Arrange a suitable time for both of you, and just try to ask as many insightful questions as possible on the call. Your goal is to make a good impression on that person.
Via email:
You could find the email format for whichever organisation your target individual works for, or via a common contact.
The email should be short and sweet. Almost a 'cover letter-lite'. A bit about yourself, how you share a common connection, what you're interested in and a call to reply from them. Again, it's a numbers game here so just keep pounding away.
The Ask
Don't ask them about work opportunities or how you can get a job in the first few contact points. Rather, tell them what you've done so far, and ask for advice on how best to position yourself for a similar job to theirs.
By implying that you're in the process (and if you've kept up the rapport from before), they'll keep it in the back of their minds that you're on the look out.
From there, I'd keep in contact regularly just as a check in and they might eventually reach out to you with opportunities. Or, if you're bold enough, you could ask if there is anyone else they're aware of that can be of value to contact.
----------------------------------------------------------
The key here isn't to 'beg' it's to get a foot in the door and a face to a name to people already IN your desired role. They'll give you the right insight and advice that you need to do well, and you'll have a in-road to someone working where you want to be.
I personally think this helps A LOT as you won't just be blindly applying to jobs but rather you'll know what to expect and will have a voice to vouch for you throughout the process.
This has worked for me, and I guess after yesterday, I wanted to help out with something more 'actionable'. Just remember that you have to keep trying - never give up!
Original post by FailedTeacher
We all have to start somewhere, we're not born with that skills although some maybe gifted to pick up on it quickly. Don't assume that even basic skills don't have some learning curve, they do and some people need time. Additionally, the interview environment is not a true reflection of work-based performance unless of course the job is to interview
It was a statement of opinion, not an assumption. I didn't say there wasn't a skill that couldn't be learned, just that it is a basic workplace skill.
Original post by FailedTeacher
it's not clear how many applications are made.
A previous post gave an impression that the OP was being picky which suggested they probably weren't making as many applications as they could to help themselves:
Original post by jelly1000
I've only gone for ones requiring a cover letter and interview
Apologise if I misconstrued, OP. To FailedTeacher, congratulations on your 100+ applications, I hope you weren't trying to rub it in to anyone carefully selecting appropriate jobs for themselves.
Original post by FailedTeacher
Also take into account that some employers who have their own application process, can sometimes take 1-2.5 hours
If the process from starting an application through shortlisting, interviews up to concluding with or without a job offer takes only 1-2.5 hours, something is wrong incredibly early on for you.
Original post by FailedTeacher
This is where an ignorance really shows, opportunity to show what you can do is not always available and it is down to a conversation that some people just simply find difficult.
I shared my personal experience, that's not being ignorant. As an aside, we all create our own opportunities, have you thought about asking if you can show what you can do in interview rather than just describe or explain?
Original post by FailedTeacher
Again, a blinding ignorance, talking about getting a job as to get a burger from McDonalds
Not ignorant in assuming there are plenty of jobs out there, that's what the OP said after all.
Original post by jelly1000
I've found plenty of jobs to apply for
Original post by FailedTeacher
But I do know a thing or two (First class degree in education and got a distinction in my Masters module as well as teaching experiences)
All hail, let me fetch my trumpet for the fanfare.
Original post by FailedTeacher
please message me anything and don't take this entire message as a personal attack.
Ha! Now that is ignorant.
To the OP though - don't beat yourself up over not getting on a grad scheme or getting a career job at this stage, nothing lasts forever after all. It's honestly not the end of the world if you get a 'just so' job although it might feel like it. Apply for jobs that won't stress you out in interviews and take it from there. Network, carry on volunteering, build your confidence. You'll get there (the mythical there that no one really knows wherever that may be but everyone always looks for), just the route may not be direct.
Good luck OP!
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by SophieSmall
She's already said in this thread she is dyspraxic and that is why she struggles to form verbal responses quickly on the spot.
Tell your interviewers, OP. They might make allowances/take it into consideration. That old adage - you don't know unless you ask.
Original post by Snow Child
Tell your interviewers, OP. They might make allowances/take it into consideration. That old adage - you don't know unless you ask.
SophieSmall was referring to me, not the OP and I've finally got a job now.*
Original post by Souljer
Not as easy when they keep telling you you're overqualified for the job.
Original post by jelly1000
SophieSmall was referring to me, not the OP and I've finally got a job now.*
Yes I know - I meant you! SophieSmall just quoted you, and I quoted her....
Congrats on the job though! Wahoo!
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Snow Child
Yes I know - I meant you! SophieSmall just quoted you, and I quoted her....
Congrats on the job though! Wahoo!
Congrats on the job though! Wahoo!
Thanks
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