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64% of TSR want to remain in the EU... share your vote

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Original post by macromicro
It's scary how close this referendum is going to be due to short-sighted simpletons who wear Union Jack underwear and think we need to close the borders.

It would be a massive step back in the progression we've made and would have to be reversed at some point in the future. The entire world is going to be one large union eventually - we need to all get used to that fact and help achieve it.


I'm not sure it will be reversed. Last time, Charles De Gaulle veto'd our entry for a decade. After all this fuss, how likely are we to get a unanimous vote to be allowed back in? Which makes it a lot scarier.
Original post by Noodle0
Just looking at how the migrant crisis was dealt with is enough evidence to show how much of a colossal fail the EU actually is.


Right, because things would have run so much more smoothly if countries were dealing with the issue on an individual basis :troll:
Original post by gladders
Charming.


It was contextual, and there was no need to just point me out... unless...

you are trying to defame me and those who would vote leave.

Posted from TSR Mobile
If I were of an age where I was able to vote I'd vote in. I wasn't sure for a long time but overall the people in support of out haven't given me any convincing reasons for leaving.

Original post by Jammy Duel
Stuff like Cameron's suicide note and Obama's intervention does not help the remain campaign one bit, even remainers agreed both to be wrong and they generally push the undecided away rather than towards the position


Obama was pretty convincing for me tbh.
Original post by Retired_Messiah
If I were of an age where I was able to vote I'd vote in. I wasn't sure for a long time but overall the people in support of out haven't given me any convincing reasons for leaving.



Obama was pretty convincing for me tbh.


Wow such an easily manipulated fool. Full of them on the remain side.
It's a tricky one, and I can definitely see strong arguments on both sides. However, I'm going to choose to stay in the EU. I am proud to be European, and being able to traverse and work across this wonderful Continent is a thing to be welcomed. There is also the prospect of some sort of future federal structure. If that happens, then any other power- Russia, China, India, even America- would simply not be able to compete with us. We would be part of the most powerful nation on Earth (again).
Original post by Queen Cersei
A poll of 1,100 TSRians back in autumn showed that the majority of you want to remain in the EU: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3621353

Does that still ring true?

How are you going to vote? Tick your choice in the poll!


Cool. Don't forget kids, you had your say... you wont get it again...

gl to us all
Original post by macromicro
It's scary how close this referendum is going to be due to short-sighted simpletons who wear Union Jack underwear and think we need to close the borders.

It would be a massive step back in the progression we've made and would have to be reversed at some point in the future. The entire world is going to be one large union eventually - we need to all get used to that fact and help achieve it.


OMG this guy is welcoming this. Jesus. You are damn right though that is where this is heading. Unelectable, unaccountable, unremovable controllers of the world making decisions for the humans without impunity... and this guy thinks thats great

OMG LMAO - Never has the saying "The people get the rulers they deserve" felt more comforting
Original post by Noodle0
Just looking at how the migrant crisis was dealt with is enough evidence to show how much of a colossal fail the EU actually is.


Hey shut up letting reality take hold.

Its far better to say "Closer working union" "Safety in numbers" "Closer allignment amongst our brethren to tackle global threats"

Ignore how these buzzwords have been shown to be hysterically and demonstrably untrue time and time and time again. It doesn't matter if these words are wholly ficticious! They are words that feel good and make logical sense so reality doesn't matter!
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by XcitingStuart
To those people who have he ability to vote and vote in - screw you.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Everyone is entitled to their own opINion
Original post by Betelgeuse-
OMG this guy is welcoming this. Jesus. You are damn right though that is where this is heading. Unelectable, unaccountable, unremovable controllers of the world making decisions for the humans without impunity... and this guy thinks thats great

OMG LMAO - Never has the saying "The people get the rulers they deserve" felt more comforting


I am by no means a federalist like macromicro appears to be (they are a minority anyway - yes, even in the EU), but the idea that the EU is particularly deficient in democratic credentials is a hazardous one to sustain anyway.

It's elected - the Parliament is elected and powerful; the Council of Ministers consists of elected national governments; the European Council of elected Heads of State and Government; and the Commission is nominated by the European Council and ratified by the Parliament. Legislation is proposed by the Commission, and amended and accepted/blocked by the Parliament and the Council of Ministers.

It's accountable, and removable - the Commission answers to the Council of Ministers, European Council and the Parliament. The Parliament holds the purse strings, and can sack the Commission is desired. The Parliament and Council of Ministers have numerous committee systems to scrutinise legislation and Commission activity and appointments.

It does not make decisions with impunity - the Councils and the Parliament are hard taskmaskers and legislation takes time to come to a point of being enacted - years, even; there's still some stuff being considered in the Council of Ministers dating back to 2012. And they do withdraw proposals if they feel the political will and/or the proposal has been exposed as flawed. More recently national parliaments have attained direct and not inconsiderable means by which they can block or influence European legislation formally, and they have always had access to EU documents, the right to question the Commission directly, and press their governments, and the Commission, for explanations and justifications.

Sure, you can say that it's not enough, and that it can be improved in all sorts of ways; of course it can. But compared to the credentials of a Member State, for example the UK, the EU's structure is about as good, as open, and its leaders as accountable, responsible and democratic as they can feasibly be, in my opinion.

I've seen some suggest the Commission ought to be directly elected, but that way is dangerous. Many eurosceptics are obsessed with national sovereignty; that's fair enough. I believe the UK is, and ought to remain, sovereign within the EU, and part of that is that the Commission remains subject to considerable Member State government control. Electing the Commission would undermine that, and give the Commission a kind of democratic legitimacy it currently does not have, and make it more willing to be independent and take an aggressive pan-European lead. It would be akin to electing the British House of Lords or the monarchy - it would completely alter the dynamic of how they function and make them more assertive.

In short, it would likely bring about the eurosceptics' worst nightmare - a federal Europe.
Original post by examiningboard
Everyone is entitled to their own opINion


:grin:

Your tact is applaudable.
I want out because I believe in home rule.
Original post by Sebastian Bartlett
Wow such an easily manipulated fool. Full of them on the remain side.


Calling somebody an easily manipulated fool is definitely a great way to get people to come around to your way of thinking... :rolleyes:
Original post by Retired_Messiah
Calling somebody an easily manipulated fool is definitely a great way to get people to come around to your way of thinking... :rolleyes:


Not saying it's your fault but you are being manipulated to vote in. A vote that benefits those advocating the in vote. They don't want their cushy positions in the EU parliament being abolished. Lovely juicy pension being cut. No, they want the sheep to gobble every lie until they accept it as fact then vote in.

It's blatantly obvious the out vote is the best for the people otherwise we would have had this vote much sooner (or actual be told the truth about the future in the 1975 referendum)
Original post by dannyscott7
Not saying it's your fault but you are being manipulated to vote in. A vote that benefits those advocating the in vote. They don't want their cushy positions in the EU parliament being abolished. Lovely juicy pension being cut. No, they want the sheep to gobble every lie until they accept it as fact then vote in.

It's blatantly obvious the out vote is the best for the people otherwise we would have had this vote much sooner (or actual be told the truth about the future in the 1975 referendum)


Again, nobody's actually given me a reason to think the other way beyond "nah you've been fed lies fam" come on now I'm a rational person if you actually try you might get somewhere...
Original post by Retired_Messiah
Again, nobody's actually given me a reason to think the other way beyond "nah you've been fed lies fam" come on now I'm a rational person if you actually try you might get somewhere...


Fair enough.

1. Freedom to create our own trade laws as an independent nation and not rely on the EU.
2. We can spend £350 million a week on our own country (and try to help our own people, NHS, poverty etc) instead of giving it away to the EU.
3. Better control our borders and have a more reasonable level of immigration
4. Refocus on our own industries that are being negatively effected by EU policies (farming, fishing, steel etc)

There are more. I'd rather be voting for people that sit in our parliament and make our laws then have laws being made in dark rooms over in Brussels by people whom we have never ever had the chance to vote for. It's outrageous that people want to continue this relationship but I guess they are only thinking what they are told to think (mainly) most people don't care about politics and are easily persuaded.
Original post by dannyscott7
Not saying it's your fault but you are being manipulated to vote in. A vote that benefits those advocating the in vote. They don't want their cushy positions in the EU parliament being abolished. Lovely juicy pension being cut. No, they want the sheep to gobble every lie until they accept it as fact then vote in.

It's blatantly obvious the out vote is the best for the people otherwise we would have had this vote much sooner (or actual be told the truth about the future in the 1975 referendum)


Yes, of course. It's not possible for anyone on the Remain side to be a freethinking person who has come to a different conclusion from you. They're all mindless, gormless non-persons. :rolleyes:

The quality of debate is depressing.

Original post by dannyscott7
Fair enough.

1. Freedom to create our own trade laws as an independent nation and not rely on the EU.


We have that.

2. We can spend £350 million a week on our own country (and try to help our own people, NHS, poverty etc) instead of giving it away to the EU.


Either spending it on the same stuff and in the same way, or, as is possible, the Tories giving it to the rich as tax cuts.

3. Better control our borders and have a more reasonable level of immigration


We already have control of our borders - did you notice the vote the other night on admitting 3,000 refugee children?

4. Refocus on our own industries that are being negatively effected by EU policies (farming, fishing, steel etc)


a) the NFU has come out in favour of Remain (but of course, they're all mindless, right?)

b) the fishing industry is doing fine, thanks, and what will kill it forever is overfishing, which the CFP is designed to combat (it's not necessarily doing a great job, but it's inherently a field in which international co-operation and enforcement is key)

c) Why in the name of Jimmy Smits do we want to revive a dying smokestack industry? Steel was in decline before we joined the EU, and would be in the exact same position it is now if we had never joined.

There are more. I'd rather be voting for people that sit in our parliament and make our laws then have laws being made in dark rooms over in Brussels by people whom we have never ever had the chance to vote for. It's outrageous that people want to continue this relationship but I guess they are only thinking what they are told to think (mainly) most people don't care about politics and are easily persuaded.


Terrible, isn't it? What's your thoughts on the House of Lords? Or the fact that Cabinet meetings are confidential? Or the monarchy?

Seriously, have you ever read a single piece of factual information about the EU? Have you ever watched a European Parliament debate?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by navarre
It's a tricky one, and I can definitely see strong arguments on both sides. However, I'm going to choose to stay in the EU. I am proud to be European, and being able to traverse and work across this wonderful Continent is a thing to be welcomed. There is also the prospect of some sort of future federal structure. If that happens, then any other power- Russia, China, India, even America- would simply not be able to compete with us. We would be part of the most powerful nation on Earth (again).

But leaving the EU doesn't mean we're not European. Europe was around long before the Fourth Reich that is the EU
Original post by XcitingStuart
To those people who have he ability to vote and vote in - screw you.

Posted from TSR Mobile


I very deliberately did not mention Brexit supporters, because as much as I disagree with you and as disappointed as I am in the campaign for failing to provide legitimate reasoning for a Brexit, I find that there's nothing more shameful than an apathetic person.

But hey, if you want to take that route, screw you too.

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