Ken Livingstone destroyed by Andrew Neil live on air

Ken Livingstone is the latest victim of this witch-hunt.

There are anti-Semites in every political party, and they should be suspended, investigated and if found to be anti-Semitic, should be expelled from the party.

However, Livingstone was simply (but perhaps stupidly) pointing out a historical fact. He was referring to the Haavara Agreement, which:



Nothing Livingstone said was anti-Semitic. Naz Shah's insinuation, on Facebook, that Jewish people should be forcibly relocated to the United States, was an anti-Semitic comment, although I don't think that she is personally anti-Semitic. Nevertheless, it is right that she has been suspended.

Once again, however, many people, including the totality of the mainstream media, are trying to conflate anti-Zionism and criticism of Israeli government policy with anti-Semitism.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I don't think we really disagree. Hitler wasn't a Zionist - he was supporting Zionism to achieve his own political aims, of course. But, crucially, this is what Ken Livingstone - in his characteristically rambling manner - was saying. In the transcript, Livingstone says:



The key word is supporting - he was simply pointing out that he was supporting Zionism by doing so, not that Hitler was actually a Zionist.

Livingstone later confirmed this:



Livingstone isn't anti-Semitic, and I think he's right to criticise really-existing Zionism (Zionism in action) and the policies of the state of Israel. Even if he was trying to associate Zionism with Nazism, there's nothing anti-Semitic about that, although as you point out, there could be. In Livingstone's case, I don't think it is: he was stupidly and untactfully pointing out a historical fact and a historical policy.

EDIT: Or, were you saying that you were coming to my conclusion? In which case, I've just restated what you said.

Indeed, which is why comparing Zionism - or at least some Zionists and some Zionist actions - with German fascism is a valid point to make, in my view, although I'd say that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine perpetrated when Israel was founded has many more parallels with Milosevic than with German fascism.

And to add my own thoughts, as someone who is Jewish, what Ken said in and of itself was just repeating fact, its the way he used it to defend Naz Shah, someone who wanted all Jews moved out of Israel to the US, which was despicable. Can you imagine someone saying I want all supporters of Assad deported to say Australia?

Andrew Neil - *Tries to give examples from members which are not known which he thinks are anti-Semitism*

Ken Livingstone - *Sets the record straight*

Andrew Neil - *Quickly moves on*


I don't think the British electorate actually cares about anti-Semitism.

And Ken Livingstone has a long history of making anti semitic comments such as liking a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard.

It's a sorry state of affairs but people in this day and age are only concerned about themselves.

It's the same for any group. The politicians have us clamoring over each other because they present the treasury as having finite resources, and they sit back and watch each group in the community tear each other part in order to be the ones to receive the money.

As such, people are only concerned about themselves and only when they think they have "made it", do they start caring about other people or groups.

Utter crap. Stop making excuses for your bigotry - if what you said was acceptable you wouldn't have edited the post.

EXCUSE ME. WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON? Firstly Hitler was no real supporter of Zionism, he 'supported' it because he wanted people murdered or deported. To use that to defend someone is despicable.

And Ken Livingstone has a long history of making anti semitic comments such as liking a Jewish journalist to a concentration camp guard.

Most definitely. His mealy-mouthed justifications are disgusting. I'd encourage you to go to iPlayer to watch the whole thing, it just gets better and better.

Sadiq Khan has now called for Livingstone to be suspended, as have Chris Bryant and Jess Philips.

If he is, I don't see how Corbyn's leadership can survive; Livingstone is one of his closest allies, the man he installed in the key position of managing the foreign policy review.

It's also amazing how Livingstone continued to assert basically that Hitler was pro-Zionism.

And I agree re Andrew Neil; Livingstone was well and truly "brillo'd"

Incredible scenes. This YouTube video only covers part of it, the thrashing continues as they Nick Clegg and Jo Coburn then tag team him, then they invite John Mann (who confronted Livingstone in the corridors of the BBC) to wipe the floor with him.

If you want to see the whole thing, go to iPlayer and watch BBC2 live (you can rewind to watch Daily Politics)

[video="youtube;8XeDECluDCg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XeDECluDCg[/video]

I've watched the whole thing now, and gone back and watched the original interview where he said about Hitler supporting Zionist policies. What I think the issue here is, more so than the actual content, is the same point Andrew Neil made, what's the point? Why in a discussion about antisemitism in the labour party is he having a discussion about Hitler. He said he was having a historical debate, but as Clegg pointed out firstly he is not a historian and secondly he is a politician and so must be careful with his words. He certainly was not doing that. I simply cannot comprehend how he managed to turn a debate about antisemitic comments in the party into whether or not Hitler supported the creation of the state of Israel ( Not that it mattered, John Mann destroyed him on that point anyway)

Ken Livingstone is the latest victim of this witch-hunt.

There are anti-Semites in every political party, and they should be suspended, investigated and if found to be anti-Semitic, should be expelled from the party.

However, Livingstone was simply (but perhaps stupidly) pointing out a historical fact. He was referring to the Haavara Agreement, which:



Nothing Livingstone said was anti-Semitic. Naz Shah's insinuation, on Facebook, that Jewish people should be forcibly relocated to the United States, was an anti-Semitic comment, although I don't think that she is personally anti-Semitic. Nevertheless, it is right that she has been suspended.

Once again, however, many people, including the totality of the mainstream media, are trying to conflate anti-Zionism and criticism of Israeli government policy with anti-Semitism.

It takes brave people to break taboos and orthodoxies on opinions. Why should things always be "off limits".

Who is one person to dictate to another what is off limits. We already have the state in area of our lives. Do we now need it to regulate offensiveness? Are we to be told what we can and cannot think or say? I am a sovereign being and have natural rights. This is a clear infringement of those rights. No no no!




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