40% teenagers don't pass English or Maths

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I highly doubt that someone barely on the passing side has that many more options than someone who barely failed.

But yes, I do agree that in general you are correct. The better you perform at school, your options are at least not worse.

I did say though that they can still succeed. They might have fewer options, but it's not impossible.

It's going to make it harder to find someone else to give you a job

e.g. it's recently been announced early years staff and nursery staff will need grade C or above in maths and english http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-04-25/nursery-manager-worried-new-government-rules-will-hit-recruitment/

If you're going into the family business or something you might be OK. If you're hoping to start a business on your own you'd better get someone to check your business plan for spag and numeracy before you show it to the bank manager.

Reply 61

Sacred Ground

That's why BTECs exist

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 62

brainhuman

Original post by Joinedup

I highly doubt someone with a C in maths and English will start his own successful business.

Nor did I particular mean great financial success and wealth when I said "successful in life".

Reply 63

TheSalman

Surprisingly, another reason is because of people go into "illicit activities" too. Not to mention, most people I know from secondary school dropped out of college, got either an apprenticeship or a full-time job. To be fair, a lot of people don't actually care about FE or HE. A lot of mates I know just didn't think they'd need GCSE grades, and in their defence, they're actually doing pretty well for themselves.

In conclusion, that Sully Breaks guy's video states the mindset of the generation today

Reply 64

Moonstruck16

Original post by paul514

The same

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For once I have to agree with Paul. Many of the people I know who did well in school were the ones who had parents who would read to them all the time when they were very young, helped them with their homework, etc. and instilled a work ethic in them from the start, even if they then did let their kids get on with it for themselves after a few years. Didn't matter if they themselves were terrible at maths, they still tried. Most of the people who did badly didn't have this when they were young.

Then you get the ones who genuinely can't do well, no matter how hard they or their parents try. They are in the minority and they are the ones who do well when they find a different way of working/learning.

Schools and colleges are important factors but your parents are you first teachers and that home environment will carry forward into school.

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Reply 65

doodle_333

Obviously there are a minority who have a learning difficulty of some sort which makes it much harder for them to achieve basic standards of English and Maths however if 40% is the real figure then learning difficulties do not account for all of that. I think there is a combination of various things: parents who don't believe in education, emotional difficulties/difficult personal lives, lots of kids simply don't understand that not getting English and Maths qualifications will affect them a lot, a school system which struggles to cater to their needs, being stuck in a bottom set with poor teachers/behaviour.

Personally, I think that students who are really just not going to pass English/Maths GCSEs should be focusing on practicing skills they will use in life so they can write a basic job app/letter/CV etc using proper English and do things like work out taxes/reductions/money using Maths rather than spending huge amounts of time reading 19th century literature and stuff when they can barely read at all and can't write a coherent sentence.

Also, I'm sure English is difficult for EAL students but as a group EAL students actually outperform white british students generally.

Reply 66

Moonstruck16

Original post by doodle_333

This as well. GCSE age kids are told that GCSEs are the most important thing in the world when really, maths and English are the most crucial GCSEs that will mess up your plans if you don't get the minimum.

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Reply 67

doodle_333

Original post by Moonstruck16

I work in a school and kids spend most of their time on revision classes etc for subjects other than maths and english when they are far from sure to pass... even teachers are guilty of pushing their own subjects rather than sending a clear message that maths and english must take priority

Reply 68

Drunq

Who thinks that grade boundaries are to blame too? Don't the same percentage of people fit into each grade?

Reply 69

JamesN88

Original post by Drunq

What are your opinions that teenagers do not get a C or above in english or maths?

We are mostly talking about native english speakers as well not being able to pass english above a level C.

I find this odd because international students who come here for university often speak less english than native speakers and are classed as a higher level at speaking / writing english.

Is this fair? and should Britain step up their game and make these 40% of teenagers pass their basic skills?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36130539/how-clever-you-have-to-be-to-work-in-a-nursery-with-gcse-maths-and-english

You do realise that English starts with a capital letter?

Reply 70

JamesN88

Original post by Moonstruck16

As you say, apart from English and Maths(and possibly Science subjects depending on your career plans) none of the others really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I've found that out first-hand through messing around as a teenager instead of studying. :smile:

Reply 71

John55

Original post by Alexion

Nah. We need people that fail this stuff so we've got people to do the boring-ass jobs that people with intellectual capability deserve better than.

What an abhorrent point of view...

Reply 72

SmileyVibe

I used to bring home D, E, and C's on my report grades for Math. Aww, good times.
I never paid attention in Math and there are so many ways to manipulate numbers.

English is more than just English grammar. English is far from the English language you speak everyday. You have to read books, do reports, and projects. At least that what they teach in honors English. I fail the class with a D. Barely does any teacher teach English grammar in English class.

French and Spanish teach language. English is book reading, research papers, and projects, and figurative language. What does that have to do with English grammar? You can have best understanding of English grammar but if you're horrible at essays and looking "beyond" then it's more than failing a class on a language you speak. People underestimate English because it sounds so simple.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 73

Tiger Rag

We had about 9 months to do almost 2 years worth of work for GCSE English. And they wondered why so many people didn't get a C. And we had a teacher who couldn't teach.

Reply 74

Alexion

Original post by John55

What an abhorrent point of view...

there was a touch of satire there you seem to have missed :tongue:

Reply 75

John55

Original post by Alexion

there was a touch of satire there you seem to have missed :tongue:

Oh... well don't I just look silly wearing my arguing with random people on the internet gear. :getmecoat:

Reply 76

skunkboy

Original post by 0to100

How do you dislike a comment on here

That's a comment? It's not the fact?

Reply 77

patheticboy

Its because England doesnt have an education-driven society. Education is a right. School is a right.Whereas China, Africa, Japan etc those kids have to work for their education, their parents give everything up so their kids have a decent education.

This country hands it out on a platter to all, and the kids dont bother harnessing its worth. They've got the comfort of knowing the benefit system will back them up if it goes to pot. They know that if they dont try at GCSE theres always space on level 1 btec sport. They dont care, so they dont revise, they mess about in lesson and then they complain when a Polish kid has worked their ass off and gets a better job than them!

Reply 78

username1204031

I always find it funny when people claim that they never hear English because of all the immigrants coming over. I've talked to a lot of people from various other EU countries that don't/have never lived in the UK, and without fail they've spoken better English and had significantly better grammar than the vast majority of British natives that I've met, even a lot of teachers.

I know a lot of people that can't use capital letters or simple punctuation, people that mix up homophones and spell everything phonetically ("our" becomes "are"). It's crazy. It's no wonder people can't get jobs, their CVs must be absolute disasters.

Something needs to be done. Michael Gove's anti-science reforms made education less effective, and sucking the money from the schools that need it most and giving it to the ones that need it the least like some ****ed up Robin Hood has exacerbated the problem. Unfortunately the electorate don't seem to care in the slightest about education.