Being Gay is a choice

I think these are fair points, and I've always agreed that "choice" is the wrong word, since it implies a point in time. Decision does also imply that those, and decision pretty much equals choice. If you make a decision, you've made a choice, and to make a choice you must make a decision. I do think it's not entirely genetic though, otherwise there would be less issues like the one you stated, and the fact that people may be "confused" about their sexuality before a certain point.

i agree that it is a choice.
Reason is being..why are people also bisexual?
i thought it was one or the other, how could it be both?

To say the drinks you like are genetically determined implies that either 1) You'd know your favourite drink before you tasted them all (which obviously humans can't do, but that's the only other theoretical possibility) or 2) Somehow your body has predetermined/ pre-compared all flavours of drink possible. To have a favourite, you must be able to compare it with another. This requires knowledge of preference/ taste. I'm pretty sure your brain doesn't have little sachets containing tiny amounts of all flavours.

I think these are fair points, and I've always agreed that "choice" is the wrong word, since it implies a point in time. Decision does also imply that those, and decision pretty much equals choice. If you make a decision, you've made a choice, and to make a choice you must make a decision. I do think it's not entirely genetic though, otherwise there would be less issues like the one you stated, and the fact that people may be "confused" about their sexuality before a certain point.

I think it's extremely fair to assume being gay is technically a genetic disorder, but if you word it like that people get incredibly offended for some reason. Despite the percentages of gay people in populations being similar to percentages of people with dominant allele genetic disorders.

No it's not. I would choose to be heterosexual anyday and I think the vast majority of LGBTQIA people would. You are wrong.

Here is my opinion:Being gay is a decision, not a choice

Here is why I think this is: (please respect my opinion and don't go lashing out at me)

1. By genetics: We are born to reproduce, point blank. We are, and that's how we are made. Why would all people who decide to be gay have fully functioning reproducing systems within their bodies (excluding disabilities), if they were 'born' gay? (this does favour the choice side, however we need an unbias response)

2. If gay is a choice, so is being straight. I believe this to be true, even though we are created to reproduce, we don't go through puberty (where we begin to identify our sexuality), until the age of around 11. This could still mean we are aware of what our reproducing system does (through education), but don't understand how to use it until we begin going through puberty.

So ages between 0-11, I believe it is all environmental factors that make us gay or straight. Most people are straight because they see it as the ethical thing to do, all their life they've believed that is the correct thing to do. Education teaches us that to reproduce a man must be with a woman, which contributes to most of the population being straight. I also believe that friends influence it as well e.g who you hang around with. Now that gay marriage and such has been accepted within the UK, the first 'ethical' reason of why we should be straight begins to fade away and we see more people becoming gay.If it is a conscious or unconscious approach, our bodies will make the decision to be gay or straight, so that doesn't mean it's a choice. You see, the body makes a decision, not a choice. Take note of the different words. Choice and Decision.If you were gay, and went out with a woman and you didn't want to be within that relationship, the choice is to find a man. But the decision your body has made is that you are interested in men. You understand my point?

Who agrees and who doesn't?

1. People without disabilities can be infertile, or they can choose not to reproduce. Personally I know I am able to reproduce but I have no mothering instincts and no desire to reproduce. 2. See the list of scientific articles on page 1.

You're retarded. read my last post.

Firstly, Im not a retard as my opinion is based on scientific knowledge and not just on personal convictions.Secondly, u defend it is a choice made by your body but not by your conscient... Well, the point being discussed here is if someone choses or not to be gay. SO, if there is a choice not made by our conscience, IT IS NOT a choice. We can call a choice when we consciously chose something instead of other thingFinally, if u still have doubts on this, I can give u my professors email and he can explain u everything, with every detail (Im talking seriously, he does answer doubts from everyone..)

This is my conclusion, agree or disagree.

A choice is: "an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities."

I believe if you make an unconscious choice that isn't making a choice.
"I got my grandfathers green eyes, damn if I 'had' a choice they'll be brown like my mothers"
So referring to the point above, if you have brown/green eyes this is down to genetics and percentage and your body while within your mother deciding weather or not to have brown/green eyes. Correct? So there is a choice on an unconscious level, which isn't necessarily you making the choice if you were the one with green eyes.

Now, for being gay, you body makes a choice on an unconscious level. And we just said that when your body makes a choice on an unconscious level it isn't you making the choice.

Okay now so we understand that this person is gay, and his unconscious self has made the choice to be gay, let's take us back to our conscious self, the self where we think for ourselves and we can make choices.

Now because your body has made that choice by itself, it means we didn't make the choice.
So my conclusion was: Your body makes the choice, not yourself, meaning you do not choose to be gay.

This is my conclusion, agree or disagree.

A choice is: "an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities."

I believe if you make an unconscious choice that isn't making a choice.
"I got my grandfathers green eyes, damn if I 'had' a choice they'll be brown like my mothers"
So referring to the point above, if you have brown/green eyes this is down to genetics and percentage and your body while within your mother deciding weather or not to have brown/green eyes. Correct? So there is a choice on an unconscious level, which isn't necessarily you making the choice if you were the one with green eyes.

Now, for being gay, you body makes a choice on an unconscious level. And we just said that when your body makes a choice on an unconscious level it isn't you making the choice.

Okay now so we understand that this person is gay, and his unconscious self has made the choice to be gay, let's take us back to our conscious self, the self where we think for ourselves and we can make choices.

Now because your body has made that choice by itself, it means we didn't make the choice.
So my conclusion was: Your body makes the choice, not yourself, meaning you do not choose to be gay.

I don't think people are naturally born homosexual, i think its a choice, you can agree or disagree.

I still disagree on the basis that eye colour/homosexuality genetics aren't an unconscious choice made by your body (although I do agree you don't choose to be gay), genetics aren't any sort of choice and they're random beyond the parents choice of sexual partner.

okay, just forget about that first example about genetics because i literally have no clue about genetics.

Okay I think this is where the problem is and why we're coming to the same conclusion via completely different routes. I believe the strong evidence that being gay is determined by genetics, so it's not a choice and to then compare it even to an involuntary choice would be incorrect (I'm a science student who is a bit of a genetics fan). I understand now where you're coming from with the autonomic NS example (I think that's what you mean anyway, technically spasms are the result of a problem rather than an involuntary action to fix something) but I don't believe that's what is actually happening, although I know what you mean when you say an "unconscious choice".

agreed, we have come to the same conclusion however for different reasons. Now we have come to the conclusion that being gay is not by choice. The reason explanation is to determine why. i think it is because it is done by unconscious, where on the other hand you think it's done by genetics.

This is why I don't think it is by genetics, it's because if it's true, that means you may have got that piece of 'gay' genetic from someone down your family tree. I'm not sure if there's evidence that is 100% concrete to go within your favour, but I think it is quite unlikely that this genetic has been passed down for many generation. Or in this case, you may as well be right, but it must be a very hard piece of genetic to acquire.

This took me a bit of time to get my head around (it's 4am after all!) but it goes some way to explaining how homosexuality in men may continue to exist rather than be selected against, although as far as I'm aware there are still a lot of questions to be answered conclusively.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-008-9381-6

I had a read through this article, and i'm not convinced that this backs anything up. Since 2005 (when this article was written), there's been no further evidence to support this theory? Of course, to the results, this test was done on 250 male participants, no where near to validate the amount of gay people we have in the planet. Furthermore, women can be gay too? Why weren't there any tests done on any women?

It's been 11 years since this article and since then their has been no concrete evidence for this theory (not yet at least), so we cannot rule out the possibility.

However to my point, your autonomic nervous system, makes the choice for you is a very strong possibility because it does it in everyday life without you even noticing, e.g your digestive system. You cannot mentally stop your digestive system from working. Like you cant consciously make the choice to turn straight.

Thanks for having this conversation at 4am ;P

Yeah it does say that more research is needed, and there's lots to back up the genetic thing as a whole but this was just a family-tree specific one offering a possible explanation as to how it would continue to be acquired. Cheers for a sensible discussion, it can be hard to come by those!

Your argument is that sexual preference cannot be compared to drink preference, and your supporting evidence for the claim doesn't exist beyond "because I said so".

It's very fair to compare two different preferences, same as its very fair to compare two different drinks, or two different genders.

Here is my opinion:
Being gay is a decision, not a choice

Here is why I think this is: (please respect my opinion and don't go lashing out at me)

1. By genetics: We are born to reproduce, point blank. We are, and that's how we are made. Why would all people who decide to be gay have fully functioning reproducing systems within their bodies (excluding disabilities), if they were 'born' gay? (this does favour the choice side, however we need an unbias response)

2. If gay is a choice, so is being straight. I believe this to be true, even though we are created to reproduce, we don't go through puberty (where we begin to identify our sexuality), until the age of around 11. This could still mean we are aware of what our reproducing system does (through education), but don't understand how to use it until we begin going through puberty.

So ages between 0-11, I believe it is all environmental factors that make us gay or straight. Most people are straight because they see it as the ethical thing to do, all their life they've believed that is the correct thing to do. Education teaches us that to reproduce a man must be with a woman, which contributes to most of the population being straight. I also believe that friends influence it as well e.g who you hang around with. Now that gay marriage and such has been accepted within the UK, the first 'ethical' reason of why we should be straight begins to fade away and we see more people becoming gay.

If it is a conscious or unconscious approach, our bodies will make the decision to be gay or straight, so that doesn't mean it's a choice. You see, the body makes a decision, not a choice. Take note of the different words. Choice and Decision.

If you were gay, and went out with a woman and you didn't want to be within that relationship, the choice is to find a man. But the decision your body has made is that you are interested in men. You understand my point?

Who agrees and who doesn't?

Because I totally love being called a plant and being asked whether I masturbate every time I come out. It may not be illegal but its definitely a lot harder, not being able to love whoever you marry. Having kids with someone because of family pressures and religious reasons. Especially if you are sex-repulsed. Basically being raped because I definitely wouldn't be consenting in that situation "for the best of my family"Really? What about me? What about when people make rape jokes and tell you that they'll take you whenever and wherever because you need to try it or you just haven't net the right one. Having your whole identity erased because you're a late bloomer. Go tell that to the ace woman in her mid 40s living somewhere. That she's a late bloomer! What? 28 years too late? If course. Because that's definitely true. Some days I'd rather die than go through that