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Does right wing media make up lies about Muslim migrants, or...?

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Original post by Aceadria
It is not for a central authority to regulate what can and cannot be said. That sounds very much like censorship and goes against the morality of education (present a diversity of views to push independent thinking; not push a certain agenda).



This statement makes no sense. Please, elaborate.


Its up to them what is or isnt said on their campus, because the students and staff represent the college as a whole. It is up to the college to decide how they want to be viewed. Put it like this, in britain, most schools have a uniform. What you do outside of school is completely your business but if you do it wearing the uniform then it becomes the schools business. In more uptight schools, if you are smoking, or drinking, in school umiform (even if youre 18) youre going to get in a load of trouble. The same goes for colleges, if you aere talking privately about your views then its nothing to do with them, but if you are airing yuour views publicly and making it clear what college you go , then its the colleges decisioon wherher theyre comfortable with that.

What i mean about ignorant feminists is that actually they arent really causing any damage- whereas islamophobes are getting people fired anmd denired entry into the country, where 20 years back it wouldnt have happened.
Original post by SophieBarlow87
Its up to them what is or isnt said on their campus, because the students and staff represent the college as a whole. It is up to the college to decide how they want to be viewed. Put it like this, in britain, most schools have a uniform. What you do outside of school is completely your business but if you do it wearing the uniform then it becomes the schools business. In more uptight schools, if you are smoking, or drinking, in school umiform (even if youre 18) youre going to get in a load of trouble. The same goes for colleges, if you aere talking privately about your views then its nothing to do with them, but if you are airing yuour views publicly and making it clear what college you go , then its the colleges decisioon wherher theyre comfortable with that.


There are a few flaws with your argument. Firstly, you're assuming that students and associations are aligned with academics in how they want their institution to be perceived. This is simply not true, as shown by the countless examples of disagreements between students and management (e.g. Royal Holloway's controversial proposal to close its Classics Department). Secondly, not only does promoting free speech 'fit' in with the moral responsibility of a university it's also a legal imperative (see Education Act 1986).


Original post by SophieBarlow87
What i mean about ignorant feminists is that actually they arent really causing any damage

How do you define 'damage'?

Original post by SophieBarlow87
- whereas islamophobes are getting people fired anmd denired entry into the country, where 20 years back it wouldnt have happened.


This makes absolutely no sense and I fail to see the relevance of this line of argument to the topic at hand.
Original post by KingBradly
Does right wing media make up lies about Muslim migrants, or are they the only ones reporting certain stories that show them in a bad light?

Here are a number of stories that only seem to have been reported by right-wing sources:

Gang of migrants demanding respect smash way into Paris school:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Gang+of+migrants+demanding+%E2%80%98respect%E2%80%99+smash+way+into+Paris+school+and+refuse+to+leave&oq=Gang+of+migrants+demanding+%E2%80%98respect%E2%80%99+smash+way+into+Paris+school+and+refuse+to+leave&aqs=chrome..69i57.832j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Gang+of+migrants+Paris+school+refuse+to+leave

Arabic speaker slashes French soldier in face:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%27Arabic+speaker%27+slashes+french+soldier+in+face&oq=%27Arabic+speaker%27+slashes+french+soldier+in+face&aqs=chrome..69i57.422j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Migrant told victim "German women are just for sex":

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22german+women+are+just+for+sex%22&biw=1280&bih=729&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiS2Or5zKzMAhXmBZoKHVghDdYQ_AUICCgC&dpr=2

Three migrants stone two transgender women in German street:

https://www.google.com/search?q=migrants+stone+two+women+in+street&oq=migrants+stone+two+women+in+street&aqs=chrome..69i57.5273j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#

18 year old Kent girl alleges migrants gang raped her for three hours:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/13/18-year-old-kent-girl-accused-six-migrants-gang-rape-foreigners-dosshouse/



If you click on the links to the Google searches, you'll find close to solely right-wing sources reporting the stories. Do you believe this is all propaganda?


Don't want to burst your bubble the sex attacks were the main news in BBC and the Guardian.

The problem is nearly all the migrants are young single men.

Ideally we should send them ALL back

and instead take in the old, sick, infirm and mothers and toddlers.

Single fit your men can look after themselves better than other groups. If we can only take limited numbers get rid of all the fit migrant men between the ages of 18 and 30.
Original post by KingBradly
Does right wing media make up lies about Muslim migrants, or are they the only ones reporting certain stories that show them in a bad light?

Here are a number of stories that only seem to have been reported by right-wing sources:

Gang of migrants demanding respect smash way into Paris school:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Gang+of+migrants+demanding+%E2%80%98respect%E2%80%99+smash+way+into+Paris+school+and+refuse+to+leave&oq=Gang+of+migrants+demanding+%E2%80%98respect%E2%80%99+smash+way+into+Paris+school+and+refuse+to+leave&aqs=chrome..69i57.832j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Gang+of+migrants+Paris+school+refuse+to+leave

Arabic speaker slashes French soldier in face:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%27Arabic+speaker%27+slashes+french+soldier+in+face&oq=%27Arabic+speaker%27+slashes+french+soldier+in+face&aqs=chrome..69i57.422j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Migrant told victim "German women are just for sex":

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22german+women+are+just+for+sex%22&biw=1280&bih=729&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiS2Or5zKzMAhXmBZoKHVghDdYQ_AUICCgC&dpr=2

Three migrants stone two transgender women in German street:

https://www.google.com/search?q=migrants+stone+two+women+in+street&oq=migrants+stone+two+women+in+street&aqs=chrome..69i57.5273j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#

18 year old Kent girl alleges migrants gang raped her for three hours:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/13/18-year-old-kent-girl-accused-six-migrants-gang-rape-foreigners-dosshouse/



If you click on the links to the Google searches, you'll find close to solely right-wing sources reporting the stories. Do you believe this is all propaganda?


Don't want to burst your bubble the sex attacks were the main news in BBC and the Guardian.

The problem is nearly all the migrants are young single men.

Ideally we should send them ALL back

and instead take in the old, sick, infirm and mothers and toddlers.

Single fit your men can look after themselves better than other groups. If we can only take limited numbers get rid of all the fit migrant men between the ages of 18 and 35.
Original post by Aceadria
There are a few flaws with your argument. Firstly, you're assuming that students and associations are aligned with academics in how they want their institution to be perceived. This is simply not true, as shown by the countless examples of disagreements between students and management (e.g. Royal Holloway's controversial proposal to close its Classics Department). Secondly, not only does promoting free speech 'fit' in with the moral responsibility of a university it's also a legal imperative (see Education Act 1986).



How do you define 'damage'?



This makes absolutely no sense and I fail to see the relevance of this line of argument to the topic at hand.

Of course they dont all agree but they discuss it and then they reach a decision. If girls can be sent away feom college for wearing tight clothes, then i think they can tell a racist to stop their whining.
Original post by WBZ144
Sometimes right-wing websites make up stories about Muslims, yes. Like that mass child bride wedding in the Gaza Strip which never happened but was "reported" by the usual suspects.


But the left wing media and left wing politicans covered up all the Rotherham sex abuse. Can people trust the left wing media to report islamic wrong doing fairly?

If the left does not report someone has to? Surely?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by SophieBarlow87
Of course they dont all agree but they discuss it and then they reach a decision. If girls can be sent away feom college for wearing tight clothes, then i think they can tell a racist to stop their whining.


Interesting that you compare racism on campus to someone who is wearing tight clothes. I don't think you've fully grasped the implications of this idea. Regardless, please reply to my previous questions.
Original post by JamesN88
It's a combination of things. On one hand the Right blow things out of proportion and paint everyone with the same brush, while on the other the Left bury their heads in the sand and pretend the same problems don't exist.


I never understood this. Why people are always labelled left or right, and why they must be at heads with each other all the time.

I personally am for immigrants, if not solely for helping where we can. And yet I am also against mass immigration - there is a limit to how many we can help - and I have very strong views regarding the treatment of immigrants. If they do not want to accept our cultural norms and values, then they may leave. If they then protest about them or carry out such attacks, deport the ****ers.
Hi, I'm Muslim. I don't think they make up the stories but they do exaggerate them (it's their job) and purposely use degrading words and amplify statistics. But, I don't understand why many of the immigrants are male who should be 'fighting for their country' (according to their culture and religion). Where are all the kids, elderly, mothers etc. they're the ones who need the help, plus, I strongly doubt they'd rape and terrorize people. The UK and the rest of Europe shouldn't be controlling all Muslim immigration but rather just male Muslims entering. Also, I resent when people confuse Muslim immigrants with Muslims who've lived here for 20-30+ years and respect the rules of the country.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
It's interesting because I've asked you something and you've resorted to insults like you do with other people who challenge you. It's hilarious and childish.

Of course there's nobody to join. Because all the men have run to Europe!

Oh I'm sorry and you know what their actual intentions are? Didn't realise babe why don't you ask the Syrian migrant who groped my sister when she was in Germany? I'm sure I'd LOVE to know what he's been through before he started catcalling random women on the streets of Cologne.


You don't challenge anyone.

You make up unsubstantiated, inflammatory claims that just exasperate people. You are like a kid that continuously asks their parents "but why" and think that that is "challenging" someone.

And you actually believe that that migrant's sole intention when making that ridiculous dangerous journey to Europe was so that he could cat-call women? You're deluded.

ps not to mention I don't think anyone with half a brain believes that part about your sister.
Both.

They certainly run negative stories far more but I think it was The Sun that ran a article saying 1 in 4 UK Muslims supported ISIS and the survey company they commissioned had to issue a statement saying that they never asked that. What they asked was "do you feel sympathy for those fighting in Syria?" and the Sun just made the rest up. As a result without seeing what questions were asked verbatim I don't trust those sorts of stats in papers anymore.
Original post by HemmingsHood
Hi, I'm Muslim. I don't think they make up the stories but they do exaggerate them (it's their job) and purposely use degrading words and amplify statistics. But, I don't understand why many of the immigrants are male who should be 'fighting for their country' (according to their culture and religion). Where are all the kids, elderly, mothers etc. they're the ones who need the help, plus, I strongly doubt they'd rape and terrorize people. The UK and the rest of Europe shouldn't be controlling all Muslim immigration but rather just male Muslims entering. Also, I resent when people confuse Muslim immigrants with Muslims who've lived here for 20-30+ years and respect the rules of the country.

Nevertheless the Deobandi controls around 45 per cent of Britain’s mosques and nearly all the UK-based training of Islamic scholars. What most Deobandi scholars have in common is a conservative interpretation of Islamic law: Women are advised not to emerge from their homes any more than is necessary.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/06/who-runs-our-mosques/

Religions can be at odds from liberalism. When it affects ordinary womens lives I think it is important that the liberal press kick back hard, very hard. No point pussy footing around, if its wrong shout from the root tops that its wrong.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
PEGIDA have had so much support since the migrant crisis so reporting these events just adds fuel to the fire.

I've never understood some of the logic of some migrants- They make a big fuss about how they escaped a war but then they come here and show no respect to Western culture.


Most asylum seekers are just economic migrants aka piss takers looking to get what they can get. You can't exactly expect respect from people like that.


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Original post by Aceadria
The problem is that extremes are taking over rational, biased discussions. College campuses are stifling open discussion; corporations are too scared to be associated with individuals who make comments that don't fit the 'norm' and the 'establishment' simply dismiss criticism as bigotry. Far too many SJWs fit into this category where rather than balancing the odds, they simply shift it to another extreme. We see this with feminism, for example. A noble movement that initially pushed for equality is now represented primarily by ignorant and regressive individuals who fail to use evidence to back their statements (see the debate on the pay gap). This is equally idiotic on the Right, where individuals such as Trump make statements, say, about trade or immigration without understanding the statistics. Acting as a voice for the minority is one thing; but imposing such voices on others is idiotic.

So, you're right in that discussion and listening to other people is necessary but on both ends of the political spectrum we are facing bigots who simply refuse to listen to other people, let alone agree with them.


That is actually a really insightful post. Have to say that I couldn't agree more. Especially the bolded part. That riles me up. Because they basically undermine their own agenda. They want immigrants, they want to help, that's great, and I support that. But how does that idea imply there should be blanket acceptance of all of these immigrants? I don't get it and if they would show both a desire to help but also a willingness to enforce that immigrants conform to our values, then there would be a lot less outrage and parties like AfD would have a lot less support.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Gwilym101
Both.

They certainly run negative stories far more but I think it was The Sun that ran a article saying 1 in 4 UK Muslims supported ISIS and the survey company they commissioned had to issue a statement saying that they never asked that. What they asked was "do you feel sympathy for those fighting in Syria?" and the Sun just made the rest up. As a result without seeing what questions were asked verbatim I don't trust those sorts of stats in papers anymore.


Yes but what do you believe?
All you have said is "What you do not believe".

That is called "PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE" - you have knocked the other side hard but not allowed them to counter in any meaningful way. You have left no room for a meaningful dialogue with your views.

From Pew Research via Wikipedia:

In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[29] in Europe:

•

(36 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

•

(30 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.

•

(17 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.

•

(31 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by *Alisha*
No I just feel sorry for you when you find out that Islam is the truth:smile:


Good joke.

Sometimes I feel sorry for people like you, because you have been brainwashed. Then other times I just think ah whatever, can't feel sorry for stupid people.
Original post by FredOrJohn
Nevertheless the Deobandi controls around 45 per cent of Britain’s mosques and nearly all the UK-based training of Islamic scholars. What most Deobandi scholars have in common is a conservative interpretation of Islamic law: Women are advised not to emerge from their homes any more than is necessary.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/06/who-runs-our-mosques/

Religions can be at odds from liberalism. When it affects ordinary womens lives I think it is important that the liberal press kick back hard, very hard. No point pussy footing around, if it wrong shout from the root tops that its wrong.


I've never heard of that first statistic tbh. Sexism is a common theme in ALL Muslim households, mosques etc. It's inevitable. The dress codes required by Muslim women alone screams sexism to me. Men who go to these mosques enjoy going because it feeds their fragile masculine ego when they're constantly (obliquely) told that they're better than women or to control women. When a woman defends herself, she's told her faith is weak & to go read religious scriptures. She'd be lucky if she weren't already dead in some cultures.

Most religions in general are extremely conservative and the liberal press is too scared to say anything about Islam especially because they don't want to be viewed as racists or Islamaphobes. Even though it's not racist to morally disagree with certain ideologies, the votes seem to matter more to them.
Original post by *Alisha*
You've defo been brainwashed:tongue:


People like you are one of the many reasons why our religion is so hated. "I feel sorry for you when you find out Islam is the truth" could you sound anymore arrogant?
Original post by FredOrJohn
Yes but what do you believe?
All you have said is "What you do not believe".

That is called "PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE" - you have knocked the other side hard but not allowed them to counter in any meaningful way. You have left no room for a meaningful dialogue with your views.

From Pew Research via Wikipedia:

In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[29] in Europe:

•

(36 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

•

(30 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.

•

(17 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.

•

(31 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.



How have I not stated what I believe? I've said I think they're far more likely to run negative pieces but they're not above making **** up and in order for me to consider an article on a survey accurate I need to see the questions.

With regards to your stats, they seem like a high percentage but I have no idea if this is especially high given it only looks at one religion. Have you got Polls for the same question about Christianity? What about defending your country, given virtually every government in the world has target civilians deliberately?
Original post by Gwilym101
How have I not stated what I believe? I've said I think they're far more likely to run negative pieces but they're not above making **** up and in order for me to consider an article on a survey accurate I need to see the questions.

With regards to your stats, they seem like a high percentage but I have no idea if this is especially high given it only looks at one religion. Have you got Polls for the same question about Christianity? What about defending your country, given virtually every government in the world has target civilians deliberately?


You have not said what you believe, you are just repeating what you do not believe in a passive aggressive way.

The problem is with "pew" research is that christians in the UK tend to be women in their 70s or parents with toddlers. Its not a like for like test - none of them are going to say "yes" to suicide bombing.

It would be a better test to do the survey of Manchester United Fans or Hearts Fans. I still think they would be overwhelmingly negative. I think you would find that the facts will match the survey results. Just think about YOU would you ever agree to blow yourself up amongst civilians for any reason at all? Of course not, nor would I, absolutely no reason ever.

One can see that in countries with 50:50 muslim christian populations (eg such places as Nigeria) where even families are mixed, its the Boko Haram side that is doing the bulk of the kidnapping and bombing. I think reality is matching the finding of the surveys.

Or look at post Iraq war. The Sunni side are point blank refusing to be governed by a Shia lead government? Its beyond insane.
(edited 7 years ago)

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