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Leaks about the secret TTIP, negotiated by the EU Commission. Still Remaniacs?

I decided to quote an article, for those of you who wouldn't have been bothered to read or search up.

Today's publication of the 248-page leak of negotiating documents for the controversial Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) spells the end of the controversial EU-US deal, campaigners said today.

The texts of the TTIP negotiations have been kept strictly secret until today's leak, which reveals European Commission negotiators preparing to trade away key sectors of the European economy in order to win contracts for multinational corporations in the USA.

The leaked documents, which represent 13 of the 17 chapters currently in 'consolidated text' form, also confirm that TTIP will open the door to US producers of genetically modified food and other products banned in the EU for public health and environmental reasons, confirming fears that European regulatory standards will be abandoned in the deal.

Additionally, they show that the USA is refusing to accept any 'reforms' suggested by the EU to the hugely controversial investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) 'corporate court' mechanism, which allows big business to sue governments for lost profits.

Reacting to the publication of the leaked documents, John Hilary, Executive Director of War on Want, said:
"We have long warned that TTIP is a danger to democracy, food safety, jobs and public services. Now we see it is even worse than we feared. Today's leak shows the European Commission preparing to sell us down the river, doing deals behind closed doors that will change the face of European society for ever. It is simply unacceptable that a group of unelected officials should be allowed to contemplate such a thing without any public scrutiny."

Hilary continued: "Today marks the end of TTIP. Total secrecy was the only way the European Commission could keep the European people from learning the truth about these appalling negotiations, and now the cat is out of the bag. We call on the governments of Europe to halt the TTIP talks immediately, disband the EU negotiating team and hold a public inquiry into how such a damaging set of negotiations was ever allowed to get this far."


Source: http://www.waronwant.org/media/massive-document-leak-spells-end-ttip

Feel free to dispute parts. That's why it's up here, for contemplation and debate. :h:

@JordanL_
@L i b
@gladders
Original post by Davij038
x



@luckbox
@darkvibes
@AlexSharratt01
@sfaraj (in case)

@brainhuman
@anosmianAcrimony
@mariachi (in case)
(edited 7 years ago)

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...what's the point here?

EU negotiates controversial international trade treaty.

You do realise most treaties are negotiated in secret until the final text is agreed, right? When was the last time you saw the text of a treaty, in the open, that was still being negotiated?

As it stands, the Commission has issued frequent communications to the Council and the Parliament about TTIP negotiations and Parliament committees have gone to town on it. Meanwhile, Member States remain intimately involved in TTIP negotiations themselves. There will be no surprises in this treaty that HM Government haven't already seen.

A post-Brexit UK would almost certainly arrange to join TTIP (assuming it does complete negotiation), and it would join it from a position of weakness.

And for the record, there's nothing wrong with GM food.
im so confused, i have no idea why im tagged?
Original post by sfaraj
im so confused, i have no idea why im tagged?


I went through many pages of EU debate on this forum and you popped up. I wasn't sure of your stance so I added you anyway. If you were possibly against Brexit, I tagged you. (That's why I put the "(in case)" by your name. :tongue:)
It's like the EU wants us to leave, they just keep digging themselves a bigger hole.
Did you see the protests when Obama was in Hannover regarding TTIP?

Did you see the Germans cry "let's get out of the EU"?
Original post by gladders
...what's the point here?

EU negotiates controversial international trade treaty.

You do realise most treaties are negotiated in secret until the final text is agreed, right? When was the last time you saw the text of a treaty, in the open, that was still being negotiated?

As it stands, the Commission has issued frequent communications to the Council and the Parliament about TTIP negotiations and Parliament committees have gone to town on it. Meanwhile, Member States remain intimately involved in TTIP negotiations themselves. There will be no surprises in this treaty that HM Government haven't already seen.

A post-Brexit UK would almost certainly arrange to join TTIP (assuming it does complete negotiation), and it would join it from a position of weakness.

And for the record, there's nothing wrong with GM food.




P.S. I have nothing against GM food, but we shouldn't be crapped on like that; the ideal system shouldn't be subverted like that.

I don't have time to reply in depth to anyone right now, today or tomorrow, soz, as I have exams this week.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by similarBlank
It's like the EU wants us to leave, they just keep digging themselves a bigger hole.


Do they? I'm opposed to TTIP, but how naive do you have to be to believe that our government wouldn't join whether we're members of the EU or not? At least the EU has more negotiating power and, frankly, a far better track record of representing our interests than our current government.
So thatttss why Barack Obamamars flew all the way here to tell you how to vote!
Original post by Mathemagicien
y u no tag me :frown:

If we leave the EU, we're more likely to be in dodgy trade agreements with the US. Its the Europeans who are dragging their feet.


Considering how much the leavers seem to want trade deals outside the EU, I don't see why they're so upset about TTIP.
I'm afraid you need to expand OP. Which sectors are being traded away and how?

I'm perfectly fine with importing food from the US (a good thing, cheap imports increase supply and reduce the price) and the Tories in the UK would love to have legal GM food being manufactured in the UK so its a weak argument to suggest this would change outside.
Reply 11
It's delightful to see Vote Leave types jumping on the TTIP conspiracy bandwagon. It underlines the point that they are everything I'm opposed to in politics.

In fact, we don't just get one conspiracy: we get all the lunacy of fringe politics rolled into one here. Anti-Americanism? Check. GM scaremongering? Check. Pseudo-legal raving about Investor-State Dispute Settlement mechanisms? Check, check, check...

Then to cap it off, a peculiar attachment to European regulatory standards... being put forward to support the abolition of these very same standards. But of course, American food standards couldn't possibly be higher than our own... except for the rather obvious fact that many things openly sold in Britain and Europe have been restricted in the United States.

Throw in weird suggestions about "unelected officials" negotiating a trade deal (as if elected politicians would ever do such a thing) and barking about secrecy when, of course, most trade negotiations are entirely secret and we've got a heady mix of bull-**** to wade through here.
Original post by Rakas21
I'm afraid you need to expand OP. Which sectors are being traded away and how?

I'm perfectly fine with importing food from the US (a good thing, cheap imports increase supply and reduce the price) and the Tories in the UK would love to have legal GM food being manufactured in the UK so its a weak argument to suggest this would change outside.


I can't do it for the next couple of days; I have an external exam this week and another deadline. :frown: :tongue:

I'll get back to you on like Friday.
People are defending Corporate Tyranny?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by gladders
...what's the point here?

EU negotiates controversial international trade treaty.

You do realise most treaties are negotiated in secret until the final text is agreed, right? When was the last time you saw the text of a treaty, in the open, that was still being negotiated?

As it stands, the Commission has issued frequent communications to the Council and the Parliament about TTIP negotiations and Parliament committees have gone to town on it. Meanwhile, Member States remain intimately involved in TTIP negotiations themselves. There will be no surprises in this treaty that HM Government haven't already seen.

A post-Brexit UK would almost certainly arrange to join TTIP (assuming it does complete negotiation), and it would join it from a position of weakness.

And for the record, there's nothing wrong with GM food.


Original post by JordanL_
Do they? I'm opposed to TTIP, but how naive do you have to be to believe that our government wouldn't join whether we're members of the EU or not? At least the EU has more negotiating power and, frankly, a far better track record of representing our interests than our current government.



GMO foods cause cancer
Original post by TheTruthSaves
GMO foods cause cancer


lol
Original post by JordanL_
lol


Didnt know cancer was funny
enough of this goddamn appeasement to brussels and america! the british people have become weak! why are we self loathing haters! if we dont believe in ourselves, who else will? students need to ****ing wake up. by voting in you are in bed with big business over self detemrination whichever way you spin it!
Original post by neal95
enough of this goddamn appeasement to brussels and america! the british people have become weak! why are we self loathing haters! if we dont believe in ourselves, who else will? students need to ****ing wake up. by voting in you are in bed with big business over self detemrination whichever way you spin it!


You know, this is exactly the kind of reason why I keep arguing against people who want to leave.

Do you actually think that by voting out you are somehow voting against big business? That somehow British politicians are different to all other politicians and don't follow big business?

Most of the criticisms you lot throw at the EU, apply to Britain, too. The only difference is that instead of Brussels cheating the people over, doing stuff against their will, is that in the out scenario its Whitehall cheating people and doing stuff against their will.
The GM food thing is fine, we eat GM food all the time anyway (have you ever seen a non-GM watermelon, for example? They are much smaller than the ones we eat).

The biggest concern for me is the fact that corporations will be able to sue the government legally if they introduce legislation that 'harms' their profits; there is already one tobacco company in the US that claims it will sue the UK government something of the tune to £700 million, which is just outrageous as the legislation is for public health. The fact that a company thinks it can push around an elected government in such a way appalls me, and they are no doubt not the only company who will do such a thing, what's even more irritating is that the US aren't prepared to compromise on this, as the OP states: 'refusing any reforms suggested by the EU', when in actual fact the EU is the bigger economy so it needs to start throwing its weight around and be more demanding of the Americans.

But the idea that leaving the EU would somehow get Britain out of this is simply idiotic, David Cameron is one of the biggest supporters of this deal. We'd subscribe as soon as we are able to, and we'd be in a much poorer negotiating position than where we are now. Honestly, staying in the EU and forcing it to remove the corporate sueing clause is the only way we can salvage this deal. In theory I agree with it, reducing the barriers to trade is a good thing, but that clause is really concerning and I don't think I can support the treaty as long as that is a part of it. Sadly, I doubt we will get to vote on it, despite there being opposition across the entirety of the EU.
(edited 7 years ago)

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