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Should european women dress modestly to accommodate other cultures?

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Wait a second.. Does OP mean that western women DON'T dress modestly?
Reply 141
Avatar for Mona-S
Mona-S
4
Original post by QE2
Not really. Most people who join the army will never see action, let alone kill someone. A muderous psychopath would more than likely be weeded out during psychometric tests (or moved into Black Ops!)
The other thing is that the rules and regulations of the armed forces are rigid and well defined, even as far as how armed contact should be conducted. It does not have contradiction and ambiguity.
Also, no one is saying that Islam should be abolished. It just needs a reformation/enlightenment to make it compatible with modern societies. Look at Christianity now compared to what it was like 400 years ago!


Do you really believe that every single person that joins the army is there to protect their country?

Did you forget that the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church still exist?
Original post by Mona-S
No, you are trying to show that I am wrong, as you have pointed out yourself.

I just want to understand where you're coming from. I don't understand how people can be so judgmental sometimes. I believe I am open minded, as long as you don't annoy me, you can believe what ever you want to believe.

And I really want to close this discussion because I want to go to study. So let's agree to disagree?


You ask a bunch of questions and then say you don't want to continue.

Anyway, yes, I want to show that you are wrong. True. I did not deny that. I just pointed out that you are trying to argue against me. And that you are doing so with flawed logic, and don't want to accept that. Which is not even surprising, as it is incredibly hard to build any sort of logical/rational argument for the existence of God.

And that is one of the reasons I am so judgmental. Because otherwise, supposedly, smart people, come up with such ridiculous nonsense (from a logical point of view) in order to justify their belief. And they come up with equal nonsense defending attacks on their belief, like you have. And I think this kind of stupidity is killing humanity. The people voting for AfD are just as stupid but on the opposite end and this whole situation is benefiting them hugely. People just see oh they are against immigrants, let's vote for them. Completely ignoring the fact that everything else about the party is Nazi trash. Or, even worse, like you have been brought up that Islam is good, they have been led to believe that that aspect of the AfD is good, that it is required to make their country great again. All this blind faith and following without critical thinking is dangerous.
Original post by QE2
I agree.

By this logic, peaceful Muslims are peaceful because they are peaceful people who are just using Islam to justify their actions - which is kinda waht I was saying.

Not really. Most people who join the army will never see action, let alone kill someone. A muderous psychopath would more than likely be weeded out during psychometric tests (or moved into Black Ops!)
The other thing is that the rules and regulations of the armed forces are rigid and well defined, even as far as how armed contact should be conducted. It does not have contradiction and ambiguity.
Also, no one is saying that Islam should be abolished. It just needs a reformation/enlightenment to make it compatible with modern societies. Look at Christianity now compared to what it was like 400 years ago!


Amen brother. Give us a hallelujah.
Reply 144
Avatar for QE2
QE2
20
Original post by Mona-S
Do you really believe that every single person that joins the army is there to protect their country?
Not at all. The majority of people who join the army do it for a combination of reasons - primarily as a career choice.

Did you forget that the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church still exist?
The KKK were/are a white supremacist/political movement. They do not have an ideology based on an interpretation of the Bible.

The WBC consists of a couple of dozen people. If they numbered in the tens of thousand, and if there were other groups and states around the world who followed a similar ideology, that were leading to the oppression and death of thousands - they would recieve the same attention as Islam does.
But they don't, and there aren't.

And even if they did, how would that change the need for Islam to rid itself of its violent and intolerant elements?
Original post by QE2
Do you think that the way a woman dresses makes her, in any way at all, responsible if she suffers any kind of sexual assault? Yes or no.


No.

I don't think I'm in any way responsible if I'm walking through a dark alley with my phone out and headphones in and I get mugged, but it's a very simple fact that not doing it would reduce my risk of getting mugged, and I'm not going to throw a tantrum and try to demonise you as a misogynist victim-blamer if you advise me not to do it.
Original post by QE2
Not at all. The majority of people who join the army do it for a combination of reasons - primarily as a career choice.

The KKK were/are a white supremacist/political movement. They do not have an ideology based on an interpretation of the Bible.

The WBC consists of a couple of dozen people. If they numbered in the tens of thousand, and if there were other groups and states around the world who followed a similar ideology, that were leading to the oppression and death of thousands - they would recieve the same attention as Islam does.
But they don't, and there aren't.

And even if they did, how would that change the need for Islam to rid itself of its violent and intolerant elements?


Think you need to do more research. They are/were a Protestant-led organisation, and base some of their beliefs on Protestant ideas, not to mention they were extremely anti-Catholic and targeted many Catholics and Jews. They also believed Jesus was the first "klansman", and would pray/sing hymns as they carried out cross burnings. And there are some who believe there is Biblical evidence for what they're doing.

Funny how Christian terrorists aren't given as much attention/criticism by the media. Apparently the "terrorist" label only applies to Muslims nowadays.
Original post by yasminkattan

Funny how Christian terrorists aren't given as much attention/criticism by the media. Apparently the "terrorist" label only applies to Muslims nowadays.


How many Christian terrorist incidents have we seen in the West in the last 50 years? I can think of one.

Perhaps the reason Islamic terrorism is constantly being discussed in the media is because it's constantly occurring?
Original post by Thutmose-III
How many Christian terrorist incidents have we seen in the West in the last 50 years? I can think of one.

Perhaps the reason Islamic terrorism is constantly being discussed in the media is because it's constantly occurring?


The reason you don't hear about or see these Christian terrorist incidents is because they're not talked about in the Western media. And the only reason you constantly hear of Islamic terrorism is because it's all the media focuses on these days.

Also, why are you focusing on the West? Christian "terrorism" happens probably daily in Eastern countries, usually against Muslims. The burning of mosques, attacks against Muslims etc. (which also happens very often in the West). But why is the West more important when it comes to terrorism?
Reply 149
Avatar for QE2
QE2
20
Original post by JordanL_
No.

I don't think I'm in any way responsible if I'm walking through a dark alley with my phone out and headphones in and I get mugged, but it's a very simple fact that not doing it would reduce my risk of getting mugged, and I'm not going to throw a tantrum and try to demonise you as a misogynist victim-blamer if you advise me not to do it.
That wasn't the question.

If a woman goes out in a short skirt and tight vest top - does she bear any kind or responsibility if she is sexually assaulted?

If someone said to her "I wouldn't wear that, you might get raped", what do you think most women's response would be?
Original post by Mona-S

For example, some people do join the army because they enjoy killing and murdering people and probably have some mental health problems. Now that army is there to protect to it's land, should we abolish the army because of those crazy individuals? No, we should get rid of those crazy individuals. (Does that make sense)


To the extent that there are people who are capable of, or even enjoy, violence who are drawn to the military, that institution provides a very controlled and regulated outlet for those urges to be deployed for the benefit of society.

Is the Muslim community making any efforts to create options for disaffected or even psychopathic young men among them, so that their defects can be channeled into something useful? If anything, I see the Muslim community vehemently denying there is any kind of problem at all; to even suggest it is just part of the Zionist/Islamophobic industrial complex demonising them etc

If they spent even 1/10th of the effort on doing what I suggested above that they spend on feeling sorry for themselves and blaming everyone else for their problems, this issue would be a good way toward being solved.
Original post by QE2
That wasn't the question.

If a woman goes out in a short skirt and tight vest top - does she bear any kind or responsibility if she is sexually assaulted?

If someone said to her "I wouldn't wear that, you might get raped", what do you think most women's response would be?


I answered the question. I said "no", she wouldn't be responsible. I also said that it's perfectly reasonable to give people advice in how to reduce their risk of being victims of crime. Would you also be this offended if I suggested you lock your doors at night so you don't get burgled, or you don't leave your Christmas lights on 24/7 so your house doesn't go on fire?
Original post by yasminkattan
The reason you don't hear about or see these Christian terrorist incidents is because they're not talked about in the Western media. And the only reason you constantly hear of Islamic terrorism is because it's all the media focuses on these days.


That comment makes you sound genuinely unhinged. Is there a wave of Christian terrorist attacks, killing hundreds of Western citizens, that has gone unreported by the media?

The reason Islamic terrorism is constantly talked about in the media is because it is constantly occurring.

Also, why are you focusing on the West? Christian "terrorism" happens probably daily in Eastern countries, usually against Muslims. The burning of mosques, attacks against Muslims etc. (which also happens very often in the West). But why is the West more important when it comes to terrorism?


First, I'm talking about the West because that's where we live.

Second, what "Christian terrorism" are you referring to in "Eastern countries"? Give me five examples that have occurred in the last year.
Original post by Thutmose-III
How many Christian terrorist incidents have we seen in the West in the last 50 years? I can think of one.

Perhaps the reason Islamic terrorism is constantly being discussed in the media is because it's constantly occurring?


Yeah, you just proved the point. The KKK was a Christian organisation. There was a large religious (Catholic vs Protestant) element to the Irish Troubles, which was pretty much a civil war. It wasn't that long ago that Christian terrorists were regularly bombing abortion clinics all over the place.

Here's a list of some of the worst, most recent ones. http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

But yes, you just demonstrated the point perfectly. Christian terrorists do occur, they're just not reported to the same extent, and rarely actually associated with Christianity.
Reply 154
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QE2
20
Original post by yasminkattan
Think you need to do more research. They are/were a Protestant-led organisation, and base some of their beliefs on Protestant ideas, not to mention they were extremely anti-Catholic and targeted many Catholics and Jews. They also believed Jesus was the first "klansman", and would pray/sing hymns as they carried out cross burnings. And there are some who believe there is Biblical evidence for what they're doing.
They were established to promote white supremacy and to retain the major plantation owners influence during the reconstruction of the South after the Civil War. The majority of Southerners were, and are, Christians so they are likely do display Christian behaviour, but the KKK did not attempt to impose a Christian theocracy based on a literalist interpretation of the Bible. Their policies were based on ideas of racial purity and supremacy, and political power, not on the imposition of "god's will".

Funny how Christian terrorists aren't given as much attention/criticism by the media. Apparently the "terrorist" label only applies to Muslims nowadays.
If you paid any attention to mainstream media, you would notice that every Christian terrorist attack is reported. However, as these are almost exclusively small-scale attacks on abortion providers, they are not as newsworthy as 150 people being machinegunned at a gig or cafe, or blowing up trains, or planes flown into buildings, or bombs in airports.

Remember that the media are under no obligation to give equal weight to every event worldwide. The unique and catastrophic is far more newsworthy than the everyday and inconvenient.
Original post by JordanL_
Yeah, you just proved the point. The KKK was a Christian organisation.


The real KKK doesn't even exist anymore. If you have to reach back to the 1930s and the 1870s to attempt to justify a position that Christian terrorism is just as relevant as Islamic terrorism, then you've sort-of just shot yourself in the foot.

There was a large religious (Catholic vs Protestant) element to the Irish Troubles, which was pretty much a civil war.


I'm sorry to say that comment simply demonstrates you don't know very much about the Troubles. The religious disposition of the two communities was a matter of distinction, but it wasn't a true matter of dispute between them; the IRA and UVF weren't bombing and killing to further an argument about transubstantiation or the authority of the papacy. Their dispute was based on economic, social and nationalistic concerns.

In any case, I'm not a Christian so why should I care if it's shown to be a malign influence? There's no doubt it is; it's just that it's so far from being on the same level as Islam in terms of malignancy that it's an insult to intelligence to speak of them in the same breath.

It wasn't that long ago that Christian terrorists were regularly bombing abortion clinics all over the place.

Here's a list of some of the worst, most recent ones. http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men


What I see is a smattering of violent acts in the United States, a list which has to reach back to the early 80s to make ten. And a good number of them aren't even terrorist acts but mass killings by mentally ill individuals.

But yes, you just demonstrated the point perfectly. Christian terrorists do occur, they're just not reported to the same extent.


I'm sorry to say that your teachers failed you if you think what you just posted amounts to a serious argument.

But here I will open the door and give you an opportunity to demonstrate your point; show me three Christian terrorist attacks in 2015 that were as deadly, co-ordinated and ideologically/religiously motivated as the Charlie Hebdo, Tunisia Beach Massacre and November Paris attacks were.

If, as you are so earnestly telling us, that Christian terrorist attacks are comparable to Islamic terror and simply not being reported, you shouldn't have any difficulty finding three Christian terror attacks that match the wave of Islamic terror we saw last year.
Reply 156
Avatar for QE2
QE2
20
Original post by JordanL_
I answered the question. I said "no", she wouldn't be responsible. I also said that it's perfectly reasonable to give people advice in how to reduce their risk of being victims of crime. Would you also be this offended if I suggested you lock your doors at night so you don't get burgled, or you don't leave your Christmas lights on 24/7 so your house doesn't go on fire?
Ah, so you are saying that a woman wearing a short skirt and tight top is responsible for being raped in the same way that a person who leaves their Christams lights on 24/7 is responsible if the tree catches fire.

So you are blaming the victim.

I must have missed the public safety ads advising women not to wear revealing clothes. Were they on at the same time as the ones telling people not to leave their Xmas lights on, or smoke in bed, or fly a kite near elecricity pylons?
Reply 157
Avatar for Mona-S
Mona-S
4
Original post by RomanKing
What you studying? I need to do some studying for friday exam.


Biology in university. Still have some topics I didn't start. :cry:
What exam do you have?
At the very least all bodily flesh should be covered. We'll let the veil/niqab go for the moment but not covering the torso is just asking to get battered imo.
Original post by QE2

If you paid any attention to mainstream media, you would notice that every Christian terrorist attack is reported. However, as these are almost exclusively small-scale attacks on abortion providers, they are not as newsworthy as 150 people being machinegunned at a gig or cafe, or blowing up trains, or planes flown into buildings, or bombs in airports.

Remember that the media are under no obligation to give equal weight to every event worldwide. The unique and catastrophic is far more newsworthy than the everyday and inconvenient.


The fact that they have to reach back to the Klan, which really only existed formally and substantively in the 1870s and again in the early-mid 20th century, to try to elevate Christian terror to the same status as Islamic terror, speaks volumes about the emptiness of their arguments.

Many of the incidents they cite are mass murder events by mentally ill individuals (tragic, but not comparable to mass murder planned and orchestrated for ideological/political/religious ends by an organisation that is self-sustaining) so not really terrorism at all. And it is genuinely unhinged that they are asserting that there is some hidden wave of Christian terrorism that we would all be outraged about if only there wasn't a media conspiracy to hide it.

There is an objective, quantifiable reality to the pre-eminence of Islamic politico-religious violence in the contemporary period; it's simply cannot be disputed that Islamic terrorists have killed many, many people in numerous incidents in Western Europe and North America in the last 15 year, and that this wave of violence is unlike any other forms of political or communal violence in the West either in quantity or quality.

I must say, there's an almost desperate and overly-defensive quality to their posts. If Islamist terrorism has nothing to do with them, why are they offended when the media covers it?
(edited 7 years ago)

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