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Possible Tory election fraud.

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Reply 40
Avatar for hovado
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Original post by ashy14
Also I won't insult the public's intelligence by thinking that their mind was made up by a bus.
Again it must do or why bother?
Original post by hovado
Again it must do or why bother?


The only thing I can say is easy logistics to move people around but that doesn't increase a vote. I am sure other parties also had their fair share of campaign buses which also made little difference. At the end of the day the result was what it was and it is very unlikely to change. If members are found guilty of fraud then yes justice needs to be done but it is unlikely it had any effect at all on our election. The Conservatives will be in power most likely until 2020 and probably longer considering the state of the parties at the moment and people just have to learn to accept it. They won the election in which potential fraud had little to no effect and that's the end of the mater.
Reply 42
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Original post by ashy14
The only thing I can say is easy logistics to move people around but that doesn't increase a vote.


What's the point then?
Original post by ashy14
Yes and even if those 26 had not committed any type of fraud which I cannot say they have even committed anything at all, they probably would still have won those seats. Stop being a sore loser. Even then if you take away the 26, the Conservative Party would have made a coalition with the DUP, Lib Dems and maybe UKIP. You are clutching at straws.


If they were going to win the seats anyway, they wouldn't have spent tens of thousands of pounds and committed a crime which a) could later result in them losing the seats and b) could send them to prison.

The fact that people are actually willing to defend fraud of our electoral system is incredible. And we wonder why the country is ****ed.
Old news. Channel 4 covered it weeks ago.
Tory and Labour election fraud to keep UKIP out.
Original post by JordanL_
If they were going to win the seats anyway, they wouldn't have spent tens of thousands of pounds and committed a crime which a) could later result in them losing the seats and b) could send them to prison.

The fact that people are actually willing to defend fraud of our electoral system is incredible. And we wonder why the country is ****ed.


When did I ever defend fraud? I stated many times that if fraud is proven whoever committed it should face full justice, all I said is that it would have had very little effect on the election.

As I stated before election fraud is indefensible and that is why anyone who commits it should face the law, it isn't defending it though to say that it has no effect on an election as in this case. In nation's like Russia where there is evidence to show that there is possibly widespread fraud and intimidation maybe elections are changed by it but an extra few campaign buses will not decide an election.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by ashy14
I still find it unbelievable that people cannot accept the election result, even if what they did had any effect it would have been very very insignificant. The Conservatives won the election because the people decided they were best fit to govern. Labour, the Greens and the Lib Dems were more or less rejected across the UK. It isn't a case of playing dirty, it's a case of people needing to realise that the public find certain parties unelectable because of their policies. Even with a proportional system the Conservatives would have still been the largest party. It is time people accepted that the election was lost for parties based on policies and leaders, not on possible dirty tactics or suspected fraud.


Would it?

One of the big things about PR systems is that they pretty much eliminate tactical voting. So you can't just assume that all 2015 Conservative voters would still have voted Conservative if we had a PR system.
Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob
Very casual approach to what are serious allegations, given that the Tories only have 331 seats and 29 are under question... No one expected them to get a majority, and yet no one bothered to actually check the reason apparently.

I think our system is a tad broken.


Modern Battle Buses were introduced to the UK by the Liberals in the 1970s at a time when national campaign spending was totally unregulated.

Until 2015, I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that part of the cost of a Battle Bus should be charged to the election campaign of each constituency visited.

If Jeremy Thorpe's, Neil Kinnock's and Margaret Thatcher's Battle Bus costs were never logged to local constituency spending and no-one took objection, it is a bit late to say that all parties have been doing this wrong for 40 years.
Reply 49
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Original post by nulli tertius
Modern Battle Buses were introduced to the UK by the Liberals in the 1970s at a time when national campaign spending was totally unregulated.

Until 2015, I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that part of the cost of a Battle Bus should be charged to the election campaign of each constituency visited.

If Jeremy Thorpe's, Neil Kinnock's and Margaret Thatcher's Battle Bus costs were never logged to local constituency spending and no-one took objection, it is a bit late to say that all parties have been doing this wrong for 40 years.


Isn't it the related hotel costs that are the problem rather than the bus itself?
Reply 50
Avatar for DBR247
DBR247
13
Original post by JordanL_
If they were going to win the seats anyway, they wouldn't have spent tens of thousands of pounds and committed a crime which a) could later result in them losing the seats and b) could send them to prison.

The fact that people are actually willing to defend fraud of our electoral system is incredible. And we wonder why the country is ****ed.


Agreed!, any party that has committed electoral fraud must be promptly investigated or prosecuted if such conclusions can be drawn from evidence. It is simply not right to allow any party to get away with this including the one that is in government, it is unfair- pure and simple. Those that choose to not follow the rules, should face the consequences in order to maintain fairness and democracy in this country.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by hovado
Isn't it the related hotel costs that are the problem rather than the bus itself?


Yes but the Tories are excellent at diversion and lying so don't be surprised if the focus is on the bus.
Bit rich considering Labour's history of this sort of thing cough Tower Hamlets cough cough
Original post by KimKallstrom
Bit rich considering Labour's history of this sort of thing cough Tower Hamlets cough cough


Lutfur Rahman was an Independent when he was found to be corrupt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutfur_Rahman_%28politician%29

gg thanks for playing
Original post by hovado
Isn't it the related hotel costs that are the problem rather than the bus itself?


I think the accommodation hadn't been charged at all and the Tories have fessed up to that and now charged it to the national campaign.

The remaining issue is whether these costs should be charged to the local campaigns
Reply 55
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Original post by nulli tertius
I think the accommodation hadn't been charged at all and the Tories have fessed up to that and now charged it to the national campaign.

The remaining issue is whether these costs should be charged to the local campaigns


What normally happens with accommodation costs?
Original post by hovado
What normally happens with accommodation costs?


It is all very murky. Accommodation for an individual candidate's campaign should be booked to that campaign. Accommodation for the national campaign should be booked to the national campaign.

You can see the problem if you look at the cost of a billboard advert. A billboard saying "Vote Labour" you would think is the most obvious "local" advertising imaginable. But the Labour Party doesn't put up a billboard in order than 1000 people walking past can see it over say a week. They do it so that a front bench politician can unveil the billboard in the presence of national, regional and local media. So if the billboard is unveiled in Macclesfield, it might get a slot on Look North and if Labour are lucky it might get 30 seconds on News at Ten. Is that national advertising or local advertising?

Is accommodation for telegenic young Tories on a Battle Bus about stuffing leaflets through doors in a constituency or about being filmed by the national and regional media stuffing leaflets through doors in a constituency?

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