The Student Room Group
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>

Should IT, BBC to Medicine have a "white" quota?

You go into any major IT department of the big banks in the City and you will quickly see that "white" is under represented.

I think (not sure) the same is true in medicine (under representation).

Perhaps even in the media.

Or do you think its OK?

I think its all OK, but I am slightly concerned - not that there might be racism but rather that "white" working class people are failing to get these jobs.

Is our education system broken in that too many people "Do not want to do IT" or think they are not brainy enough to do Medicine (which is silly, its doesn't really take a lot of brains to be a doctor - just quick witted and able to work in a team) .

Scroll to see replies

Original post by FredOrJohn
its doesn't really take a lot of brains to be a doctor


...what?
Reply 2
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by TheThiefOfBagdad
...what?


When you see a doctor who is between 45 and 65 he or she would have got into medicine with perhaps only C grades. Now you need A*s.

There is no sign at all that todays A* Junior doctors are in any way better than the C grade doctors .

Thus the extra brain-iness is not a requirement. Its a more like a Union trying to keep the numbers down so as to keep up wages.
Reply 3
Avatar for Maker
Maker
20
The grades needed to do medicine has increased over time. In the 1980s, you can get into medicine with 3Bs although most had 3As. But that is more to do with grade inflation than increased grade requirements.

I started my course in 1985 and needed BCC, the same course today is ABB at the same university. You could argue the A* grade was equal to the old A grade and the current A grade is the old B grade.
Reply 4
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by Maker
The grades needed to do medicine has increased over time. In the 1980s, you can get into medicine with 3Bs although most had 3As. But that is more to do with grade inflation than increased grade requirements.

I started my course in 1985 and needed BCC, the same course today is ABB at the same university. You could argue the A* grade was equal to the old A grade and the current A grade is the old B grade.


you could argue that but educationalists say that exams are not getting easier just people are getting brighter ("better teaching" ). So my point still stands, there is no need to get A*s , its a con, especially now with the power of the internet - doctors like everyone else look things up on google (I kid you not).

A person of average intelligence from working class ex-pit town (C grade a levels), is a good person, can keep studying for many years and not give up, would be just as good a doctor as an A* person from eton - if not miles better - at least he or she would be able to understand the local accent.
Reply 5
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by Multiculturalism
There is no racism against whites

/thread


That is a racist thing to say. Racism is a universal problem. I think you should apologise.

Say for example, everyone in an IT department is from India and speaks Hindi (or similar).. Two people apply for the job. One is from India, speaks Hindi, knows the bosses home town etc etc, and the other is a bit of a rough neck from some Northern English working class town.

That Northern English chap, if racism is a universal, will less likely get the job than the Hindi speaker.

This is not necessarily a theoretical problem as many IT departments are as described.

So should IT have a white working class quota?
Reply 6
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Perhaps an example:
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/8275/lloyds-may-have-replaced-1300-uk-it-workers-with-indian-contractors/

Anyone wish to apologise now?
Reply 7
Avatar for Maker
Maker
20
Why is it racist for white working class people not to have middle class jobs? Can every working class person be qualified to get a middle class job just because they are white?

It sounds like the OP wants unqualified people to become doctors just because they are white. Would he want to be treated by someone whose only qualification is white?
Reply 8
Avatar for Maker
Maker
20
Original post by FredOrJohn


LOL, get real.
Reply 9
Avatar for Xelfrost
Xelfrost
8
[QUOTE=Multiculturalism;64652649]There is no racism against whites

/thread

Silly goy, you cant /thread your own post...

:^) Just some friendly advice from your pal the white guy!
Reply 10
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by Maker
Why is it racist for white working class people not to have middle class jobs? Can every working class person be qualified to get a middle class job just because they are white?

It sounds like the OP wants unqualified people to become doctors just because they are white. Would he want to be treated by someone whose only qualification is white?


You could change the entrance to take into account the geo-social area you come from. Set the bar way higher for eton parents then for unemployed sink estate parents . One could assume that 3 Cs from sink estate is pretty much the same as 3 A*s from Eton.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Xelfrost
Silly goy, you cant /thread your own post...

:^) Just some friendly advice from your pal the white guy!


Goy? I can and I did /thread my own post. And no, we're not pals
Reply 12
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by Multiculturalism
Goy? I can and I did /thread my own post. And no, we're not pals


All men and women are brothers and sisters and as such if poor white brothers and sisters are losing out in the job market to well educated brothers and sisters from asia then something needs to be done to help our poor white brothers and sisters get a foot up the ladder to greater prosperity.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 13
Avatar for Maker
Maker
20
Original post by FredOrJohn
You could change the entrance to take into account the geo-social area you come from. Set the bar way higher for eton parents then for unemployed sink estate parents . One could assume that 3 Cs from sink estate is pretty much the same as 3 A*s from Eton.


I disagree with this. We don't want the ridiculous situation in America where black and hispanic students get into the same university as white and Asian students but with much lower SAT scores. This disadvantages whites and Asians for no good reason.

Anyone from any class can get good A levels if they put their minds to it. White working class students have the advantage of having English as a first language and being familiar with how the country works and doesn't. If you are thick or can't be bothered, no amount of private school will make any difference.
Reply 14
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by Maker
I disagree with this. We don't want the ridiculous situation in America where black and hispanic students get into the same university as white and Asian students but with much lower SAT scores. This disadvantages whites and Asians for no good reason.

Anyone from any class can get good A levels if they put their minds to it. White working class students have the advantage of having English as a first language and being familiar with how the country works and doesn't. If you are thick or can't be bothered, no amount of private school will make any difference.


Its a self evident truth that people are getting higher marks at A level not because they are getting more intelligent or the exams are getting easier rather the teaching of A levels is getting better - specially in private schools (such as Eton).

Thus a child from a sink estate with poor teaching, if he gets a C in biology that is equivalent of an A* at Eton. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue otherwise.

I'm pretty sure you could do some experiments to prove that this is the case beyond any reasonable doubt.

Or what about taking medical students from nations were bribery is more endemic would that be safer than taking a C grade working class boy or girl from a sink estate?

I'll warrant that 50% of medics come from private schools (or more) but they only make up about 10% of students. That I would call cheating - paying money so your kid becomes a doctor while the poor parent has no money to cheat with
(edited 7 years ago)
No, no-one should have quotas for anything.
Original post by Multiculturalism
Goy? I can and I did /thread my own post. And no, we're not pals


Come on friend, why must you reject my message of friendship? I thought you're all about love and tolerance :^)
Reply 17
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by TimmonaPortella
No, no-one should have quotas for anything.


An exam grade is a quota system if people below the grade would make just as good what ever it is that was applied for.

The only way to avoid quota-isation is to weight the exams by quality of teaching ,neighbourhood and the exams the parents passed. Otherwise you are giving 70% of the best jobs to people who queue jump by going private.
Original post by FredOrJohn
An exam grade is a quota system if people below the grade would make just as good what ever it is that was applied for.

The only way to avoid quota-isation is to weight the exams by quality of teaching ,neighbourhood and the exams the parents passed. Otherwise you are giving 70% of the best jobs to people who queue jump by going private.


So you want to replace a quota system measuring intelligence, education, skill and ability with one that goes by skin colour instead?

Perhaps someone doesn't like what those tests say.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 19
Avatar for FredOrJohn
FredOrJohn
OP
5
Original post by MrControversial
So you want to replace a quota system measuring intelligence, education, skill and ability with one that goes by skin colour instead?

Perhaps someone doesn't like what those tests say.


Nope - misdiagnosis. I have all the grades etc (and to be honest I am now in employment - IT (web developer)). I am speaking from observations of the world around me - I have no axe to grind - I'm making a mint (sorry but I am).

There are problems in UK IT and one is the under representation of working class white people and the under representation of women (of all social types).

If you seriously want to know the REAL truth of what is going on read this:

http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/8275/lloyds-may-have-replaced-1300-uk-it-workers-with-indian-contractors/

Yes (and what the article does not say is these contractors are now getting £500 a day each - on average)...

Don't believe me?

Check JOBSERVE for bank contract rates:
http://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/JobSearch.aspx?shid=1B231ADC1CFAB38ED7
(edited 7 years ago)

Quick Reply

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you