Man stabs 4 people in Munich - shouts 'Allahu Ackbar'

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I need help? You're the one who wants to punish people for their views, thats closing in on fascism mate.

Where the hell did I say that i want to punish all muslims for following their religion?

People like you are why the world is where it's at. Thinking that we are directly criticising muslim people for critiquing the religion the follow.

Muslims are not the problem, and they never have been, the problem is the ideology they subscribe to, and unless the ideology, not the people are curtailed and reformed, can the west be tolerant of islam.

Reply 61

雷尼克

Original post by Truthteller10

Islam isn't the problem, the problem is that you're letting terrorist groups like ISIS manipulate you into thinking that a religion is evil.

Reply 62

difeo

Original post by 雷尼克

I can differentiate between Muslims and Islam, and Islam is 1500 years old, are you really going to relentlessly attack the billions of innocent Muslims for their ancient scripture which could in some ways be argued to encourage violence? What about the Christians who follow a faith that resulted in the Crusades? Are they personally accountable? Do they deserve an endless flurry of religious hatred?

What I want you to do is step back and realise that Islam alone is not causing these things. Look at some case studies, the guy who killed 38 tourists on a beach in Libya was not a strong Muslim, his friends said he wasn't in various reports, and he was described to be 'radicalised by the Libyan civil war'. But no, you blame Islam, like that alone is the trigger.

Nothing is caused by one thing alone so that's a meaningless statement

Reply 63

雷尼克

Original post by difeo

Nothing is caused by one thing alone so that's a meaningless statement

Some people here seem to think that Islam is the singular cause of these problems.

Reply 64

Truthteller10

Original post by 雷尼克

Islam isn't the problem, the problem is that you're letting terrorist groups like ISIS manipulate you into thinking that a religion is evil.

I guess it was ISIS that told muslim followers in the 7th century in Quran 4:34 that they could beat their wives if they turn out to be rebellious?

Reply 65

AverageExcellence

Original post by Adzkii786

There was no evidence to say that he did shout "Allahu Ackbar", pathetic scapegoating, probably a drunked White considering Muslims can't drink.

many eye witnesses have confirmed the suspect did indeed shout that phrase..

Reply 66

username2228735

Original post by 雷尼克

What I want you to do is step back and realise that Islam alone is not causing these things. Look at some case studies, the guy who killed 38 tourists on a beach in Libya was not a strong Muslim, his friends said he wasn't in various reports, and he was described to be 'radicalised by the Libyan civil war'. But no, you blame Islam, like that alone is the trigger.

Again, your view of Islam is far too simplistic. You are assuming there is one single interpretation of scripture and that it cannot be 'twisted' to fit an agenda. There is no denying that the motivations for an individual to turn radical ideas into terror attacks are diverse (e.g. economic hardship); but all too often (and you seem to be a victim of this very issue), people ignore the importance and justification that Islam can provide for such acts. Placing the blame for an attack on all Muslims is bigotry; but criticising the very ideas that Muslims happen to believe in is not.

Reply 67

Rorschach II

Original post by Adzkii786

There was no evidence to say that he did shout "Allahu Ackbar", pathetic scapegoating, probably a drunked White considering Muslims can't drink.

I'm not disputing the topic so much as disputing your logic.

Muslims can drink, and a portion of Muslims do drink, despite what the Qur'an may dictate.

Your point is based on faulty premises.

Reply 68

雷尼克

Original post by Aceadria

The issue here is not Christianity. Academics and the mainstream media has done a good job of pointing out its flaws. Moreover, Christianity has undergone significant reform in the last few centuries; Islam has not. The comparison between the two is no longer valid.

Again, your view of Islam is far too simplistic. You are assuming there is one single interpretation of scripture and that it cannot be 'twisted' to fit an agenda. There is no denying that the motivations for an individual to turn radical ideas into terror attacks are diverse (e.g. economic hardship); but all too often (and you seem to be a victim of this very issue), people ignore the importance and justification that Islam can provide for such acts. Placing the blame for an attack on all Muslims is bigotry; but criticising the very ideas that Muslims happen to believe in is not.

You just said it yourself, with so many interpretations of Islam, why are you criticising it as a whole? Focus on the specific ideology the terrorists follow and stop criticising all of Islam when evidently the majority of its followers follow it peacefully

Reply 69

mariachi

Original post by 雷尼克

Islam is 1500 years old, the writings in it are ancient, but you treat it as if every single Muslim today follows it word to word. Evidently they don't.

this is correct

however, in my experience, the problem is that Muslims (as a rule) think they should follow the Quran word for word, and feel guilty if they don't - there is only some sort of wiggle room left for interpretation/contextualisation

so, many Muslims have to perform mental acrobatics in order to "tame" the nastiest bits contained in their holy texts. A difficult exercise, which leaves "literalists" with some kind of moral ascendancy

however, this is a problem that Muslims will have to sort out on their own : there is little or nothing we can do for them : if we support "moderates", it is a bit like a "kiss of death" : they will be attacked and criticised as "sell-outs", "kuffar lovers" etc etc

best

Reply 70

mariachi

Original post by 雷尼克

no

it is exactly because we can differentiate between Muslims and Islam, that we attack Islam, not Muslims

PS by the way ,"attack" is an ambiguous word : it seems to imply violence

"criticise", or "oppose" are better

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 71

Tyreke

Original post by queen-bee

I've realised this too. You're not even allowed to ask simple questions just confirming the story without being attacked one way or another

Apologies, I misinterpreted the tone of your post. I'm not sure where I've attacked you though?

Please try to see this from another perspective. when people criticise Islam (very few if any of the comments on here have been directed against Muslims) they get shouted down as racist, xenophobic and anti-muslim. Mustafa is a prime example. Shouting down the concerns of others, instead of trying to understand and argue with them doesn't help anybody.

Reply 72

Tyreke

Original post by 雷尼克

I need help? You're the one who wants to punish people for their views, thats closing in on fascism mate.

Oh the irony, I fear you're too far gone to be saved.

It is in fact you, who are punishing people for their views, by labelling them as racists and fascists, when you have no evidence. Can you not see that?

Original post by sairaaas

if this is true, its pathetic, causing more hate for the innocent muslims like us ://

Yeah, because "innocent Muslims" are the real victims here, not the 4 people who got fuc :undefined:

king stabbed.

Reply 75

username2228735

Original post by 雷尼克

It seems you're still not distinguishing between Muslims and Islam. It's very important to do so.

However, to answer your point fully: to view any one interpretation of Islam as correct would be fallacious. The faith, as a whole, is based on a number of views, interpretations and contexts and in order to fully understand the faith one must consider all these aspects together. Therefore, to be a peaceful Muslim means omitting the 'violent' aspects of it (to what extent this is done is beyond the scope of this discussion). However, this does not mean a peaceful Muslim is the 'one, true' representation of Islam.

My criticism of Islam, therefore, is its ambiguity and conflicting ideas. You're indeed right in stating that Muslims who follow their religion peacefully should not be treated with disdain. However, the ideology that they follow should be discussed and debated. What you're suggesting, however, is silence simply to not 'offend'.