Boris Johnson latest Putin Sympathiser.

Boris Johnson, has spoke of how the EU was partly responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine (UKIP, or at least nigel farage and suzanne evans believe it's entirely to blame ).

Additionally, the leaves campaign has been criticized by (Among others) virtually most financial and economic institutions, all our main allies and NATO.

Now, Imagine if it had been John McDonnell making the argument....

(edited 7 years ago)

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Reply 1

gladders

Boris Johnson 4 Stop The War President

Reply 2

Farm_Ecology

Original post by Davij038

Boris Johnson, has spoke of how the EU was responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine (A view shared by UKIP, or at least nigel farage and suzanne evans).

When did Russia invade Ukraine?

Reply 3

Observatory

Boris Johnson has not said that the EU is responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

He has said that the EU is partly responsible for the coup in Ukraine (which is true) and that Russia is responsible for responding to that coup with invasion.

He has condemned both Russia and the EU.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 4

username2228735

Original post by Davij038

Boris Johnson, has spoke of how the EU was responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine (A view shared by UKIP, or at least nigel farage and suzanne evans).

Additionally, the leaves campaign has been criticized by (Among others) virtually most financial and economic institutions, all our main allies and NATO.

Now, Imagine if it had been John McDonnell making the argument....

Independent

Speaking at a Vote Leave event, the former Mayor of London suggested the EU’s “pretensions to be running a defence policy” were partly to blame for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-boris-johnson-accused-of-being-an-apologist-for-putin-a7021296.html

Let's get the initial facts right before we proceed to attack any individual.

Reply 5

Omen96

The EU expansionist and imperialist approach to this is the problem and makes the EU at fault.

Also regarding places like Syria, it's you people who have been arming the terrorists and it's you people who under "western imperialism" are trying to oust Assad for your political goals. Russia are the only one who have dealt with Syria efficiently and responsibly.

You are the people who thought it was a good idea to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, also to bomb Libya.

You think you are all wise and mighty standing up to Russia but all you are doing is defending western imperialism and intervention which has destabilised the world.

I agree with Boris and I respect Russia. I'd put my support behind Russia any day than the EU.

Original post by Davij038

Reply 6

Observatory

Original post by Omen96

You think you are all wise and mighty standing up to Russia but all you are doing is defending western imperialism and intervention which has destabilised the world.

I agree with Boris and I respect Russia. I'd put my support behind Russia any day than the EU.

As I interpret Boris Johnson's statement, he is not saying that it is bad that the EU has tried to annex Ukraine; he is saying that it is bad that the EU has tried to annex Ukraine incompetently.

He has expressed no support for Russia, its moral position, or its foreign policy goals.

Reply 7

Davij038

Original post by Omen96

Funny, I dont remember EU tanks rolling across Ukraine.

You are the people who thought it was a good idea to invade Iraq and Afghanistan,

Unlikley, as I was 13 at the time. I wish I was that cool.

You think you are all wise and mighty standing up to Russia but all you are doing is defending western imperialism and intervention which has destabilised the world.

Let me get this straight- Iraq and Afghanistan are sovereign states- but Ukraine isn't?

. I'd put my support behind Russia any day than the EU.

That's because you're an edgy reactionist.

Tell me, when has the EU ever murdered an opposition leader?

Reply 8

Davij038

Original post by Aceadria

He said they were partly to blame. Thats placing at least some level of responsibility at the hands of the EU. It is my view that full responsibility lies with Russia.

We've seen this 'partly to blame' metaphor used before- ken Livingstone recently applied it to the London bombings.

Islamist and Fascist Sympathizers need to GTFO

Reply 9

DanteTheDoorKnob

Guilty Men comes to mind. Sleep walking into another war it seems. Not sure if we'll win this one though.

Reply 10

Omen96

Original post by Davij038

Funny, I dont remember EU tanks rolling across Ukraine.

Unlikley, as I was 13 at the time. I wish I was that cool.

Let me get this straight- Iraq and Afghanistan are sovereign states- but Ukraine isn't?

That's because you're an edgy reactionist.

Tell me, when has the EU ever murdered an opposition leader?

EU expansionist and imperialist actions led to the events in Ukraine. An elected government was overthrown by fascists and the EU supported them, they didn't even fail to recognise it as illegal.

The point on Iraq and Afghanistan (not to mention the many other nations) is pointing out your Hypocricy. How can you criticise Russia considering what the West and the EU did/do?

Where is your evidence to prove the assassination was orchestrated by the government? There is no evidence available. Let me guess, you get all your information from the western propaganda machine?

Reply 11

DanteTheDoorKnob

I strongly disagree with actions in Iraq (which was a violation of UN terms) as well so there is no double standard here, likewise foreign policy in the Middle East has been a disaster and imperialist mess for the last 50 years mainly as a buffer in the Cold War to protect oil from the Soviets.

However, in terms of domestic politics, Which country has murdered an opposition leader walking the streets at night? Mr. Putin is an incredibly dangerous man, his expansionism is not new, he has already tested us in 2008 in Georgia, he now knows he can get away it and he will try it again. It sets a dangerous precedent for countries like China who are arguing about territory with Japan.

Reply 12

Davij038

Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob

Not sure if we'll win this one though.

Russia is declining massively- its population is falling, its army for the most part is rubbish, its depleted most of its reserve currency and its been held back by essentially Ukranian Peasants in trenches. Thats why its attempting to destabilize Europe* rather than consciously invade.

* Via RT propaganda, paid internet trolls and of course substantial payments to eurosceptic parties- notably Golden Dawn and National Front. Would not be at all surprised if that included Ukraine too;

Reply 13

DanteTheDoorKnob

Original post by Davij038

I think if this were true Sevastopol would have been returned already, I don't doubt the strength of the military is overstated but we are incredibly naive if we don't think they are working on narrowing the gap. Meanwhile we are overseeing massive cuts...

Reply 14

DanteTheDoorKnob

Original post by Omen96

EU expansionist and imperialist actions led to the events in Ukraine. An elected government was overthrown by fascists and the EU supported them, they didn't even fail to recognise it as illegal.

Where is your evidence to prove the assassination was orchestrated by the government? There is no evidence available. Let me guess, you get all your information from the western propaganda machine?

I haven't yet finished taking a look at the legality of the situation, but presuming the presidency was dissolved by the legislature due to popular protest (of all backgrounds, yes some of these were fascists) it would certainly be legal. Remember that the protests were caused by annoyance at Russian interference in national politics to begin with (corruption charges especially being a concern). It cannot be disputed that the annexation of Sevastopol was not in accordance with international law though.

Russia cannot cry fascism when it is her who has expanded its borders, murdered opposition leaders and destroyed civil rights.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 15

username2228735

Original post by Davij038

That's irrelevant. You're not helping the argument by misleading people into believing something that is not necessarily true. Opinion does not necessarily mean fact.

Reply 16

Davij038

Original post by Omen96

EU expansionist and imperialist actions led to the events in Ukraine.

What actions?

An elected government was overthrown by fascists and the EU supported them, they didn't even fail to recognise it as illegal.

An elected government that was notoriously corrupt, broke its electoral promises, shot peaceful protestors and then escaped during peace talks to russia where they now have Milliuons of Rubles in their accounts.

Democratically overthrowing authoritarian regimes is legitimite in my view.

The point on Iraq and Afghanistan (not to mention the many other nations) is pointing out your Hypocricy. How can you criticise Russia considering what the West and the EU did/do?

The EU hasnt done anything. Whatever your thoughts on the War of Terror- have iraq and afghanistan been subsumed by the Britain and the US? Are they ruled by Obama and Cameron?

Stop listening to George Galloway and grow a few brain cells kid.

Where is your evidence to prove the assassination was orchestrated by the government? There is no evidence available.

My evidence is that in the most policed area in an authoritarian state a leading critic of the Putin regime was gunned down. Before being killed he ws quoted as being in fear for his life due to criticisms of the Putin regime and protesting against the fact that there was acovert war going on in which dead soldiers relatives were informed that their children died in training, among other things.

Let me guess, you get all your information from the western propaganda machine?

All media is biased one way or another, but id be more inclined to trust somewhere like The Guardian or the BBC than Russia Today or Press TV by a yard miles- by the same logic, that the Allies committed war crimes and atrocities does not mean they were no different to the Axis.

Reply 17

Davij038

Original post by Aceadria

That's irrelevant.

By my reasoning, if i took the culpability of the crime away from the perpetrator, even if they do not directly agree with the perpetrator they are still essentially defending them.