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I think there may be some agencies that rent out young attractive girls, or I guess guys, to accompany people somewhere where they want to make a false 'positive' impression. I have also heard of corporate events, particularly in male dominated professions, where some eye candy is bought in, not really sure if this still would really happen. Aside from this I guess there is prostitution in various guises some of which might be branded as escorting.
escort services are legal in the UK.
It's essentially 'private prostitution'. Escorts are free to advertise themselves online and through agencies.
It's open prostitution (women loitering on the sidewalk) and brothels that are illegal in the UK.
It's essentially 'private prostitution'. Escorts are free to advertise themselves online and through agencies.
It's open prostitution (women loitering on the sidewalk) and brothels that are illegal in the UK.
Original post by Anonymous
Someone told me it is illegal. Is it?
In England and Wales, it's not illegal to sell sex or to buy it.* It's not illegal to work in a brothel - somewhere where more than one person is offering sex - or to visit one, but it is to own one.
Also what do escorts do?
The vast majority of the work involves having sex with men for money.
* There is an offence of paying for someone subject to force etc, but as far as I can see, no-one has ever been charged with it. Northern Ireland have just criminalised paying for sex and will doubtless discover how stupid that is.
Original post by insert-username
escort services are legal in the UK.
It's essentially 'private prostitution'. Escorts are free to advertise themselves online and through agencies.
It's open prostitution (women loitering on the sidewalk) and brothels that are illegal in the UK.
It's essentially 'private prostitution'. Escorts are free to advertise themselves online and through agencies.
It's open prostitution (women loitering on the sidewalk) and brothels that are illegal in the UK.
Agencies themselves are illegal to own or operate - it's controlling prostitution for gain, regardless of any pathetic attempts to deny that's what's happening.
But as with brothels, it's not illegal to use one, either to find work as a sex worker or to find a sex worker as a client. (You'd just be better off not doing so...)
Original post by unprinted
Agencies themselves are illegal to own or operate - it's controlling prostitution for gain, regardless of any pathetic attempts to deny that's what's happening.
But as with brothels, it's not illegal to use one, either to find work as a sex worker or to find a sex worker as a client. (You'd just be better off not doing so...)
But as with brothels, it's not illegal to use one, either to find work as a sex worker or to find a sex worker as a client. (You'd just be better off not doing so...)
Sadly, your statement simply isn't based in reality.
Working as an 'outcall escort' is completely legal in the UK, and so is working for a particular agency. An escort agency is very different from a brothel and completely legal, most agencies are based online and do not operate an incall service. The escorts are essentially self employed and split income by working with an agency who can get them more clients. There is even a dedicated task force set up by HMRC to collect unpaid income tax from escort agencies. it's owning or managing a brothel that is illegal. It is only a criminal offence if the third party (agency) has employed escorts based on coercion, threat or violence.
Regardless, prostitution, legal or not is best avoided altogether.
(edited 7 years ago)
To the OP prostitution is completely legal.
Escorts simply refrain from street prostitution and advertise as a companion (aka no sexual activity) to get around the fact any form of advertising sex for money is illegal. So in effect the advertising in theory states they are to be an escort not a prostitute, while in reality the vast majority are also prostitutes. You do get a minority who only get paid to 'escort' men during events and functions, but most escorts will do this on top of their normal sexual services for extra money anyway.
Funnily enough most escorts forget this and quite bluntly state you would be paying for sex on their adverts, which technically makes their advertising illegal, however nobody really cares.
That's completely wrong. Regardless of being outcall or incall, the management of prostitutes (including escort agencies) is illegal and constitutes pimping. Most escort agencies also include *incall* properties anyway. The main manner escort agencies try to get around this is the old "time paid is for companionship, whatever happens between two consenting adults "blah blah blah". Even then many still get caught out.
Prostitution is legal as long as no soliciting has taken place (whether, online, in person or via adverts), no pimping has taken place nor is more than one prostitute working in a property at any time, while street prostitution is completely illegal as is kurb crawling. The brothel definition is rather broad, so simply using two prostitutes would make the property they are in a brothel whether they are outcall or not. Also technically speaking sex clubs etc are legally classified as brothels under their definition (aka where illicit sex occurs with more than one couple).
Prostitution while better avoided is rather common. Having speaking to drinkers at pub's I've worked at, friends etc etc it's apparent an extremely high proportion of men have used prostitutes. My studies during university actually showed a similar risk is shared by 'escorts' and punters, it's mostly street prostitution that has the highest risk for women which in of itself is illegal.
It is however illegal to have sex with someone trafficked for sexual services or forced into it, whether the punter knew or not. It's actually even stricter than rape laws, which if the rapist proves he felt consent was given no rape is deemed to of occurred, however this is not an excuse punters can use.
The anti sex slave trafficking laws are also rather laughable. Operation Pentameter Two is a great example of this. Out of 528 claimed arrests aimed at stopping this despicable act, 122 arrests happened, 10 out of 55 police forces never found anyone to arrest under this operation and among the 406 real arrests, more than half of those arrested (230) were women, and most were never implicated in trafficking at all. Of the 406 real arrests, 153 had been released weeks before the police announced the success of the operation: 106 of them without any charge at all and 47 after being cautioned for minor offences. Most of the remaining 253 were not accused of trafficking: 73 were charged with immigration breaches; 76 were eventually convicted of non-trafficking offences involving drugs, driving or management of a brothel; others died, absconded or disappeared off police records.
After all this they found only 96 people to arrest for trafficking, of whom 67 were charged, of which 47 never reached court. Eventually only 22 where charged in court, of which another 7 were acquitted and eventually only 15 people were convicted for human trafficking after 822 brothels and flats had been raided.... and it gets worse. 10 of these 15 were actual jailed on trafficking, no evidence existed of them forcing women into sex so thus they never got prosecuted for sex trafficking (of which two women who had originally been "rescued" as supposed victims were jailed... for trafficking themselves) and the remaining 5 turned out to have been arrested prior to the operation and raids.
Over 822 raids, and they failed to convict a single trafficker.... it's says a lot for the A) The public perception of the sex trade compared to reality and B) The laws inability to deal with sex trafficking
Escorts simply refrain from street prostitution and advertise as a companion (aka no sexual activity) to get around the fact any form of advertising sex for money is illegal. So in effect the advertising in theory states they are to be an escort not a prostitute, while in reality the vast majority are also prostitutes. You do get a minority who only get paid to 'escort' men during events and functions, but most escorts will do this on top of their normal sexual services for extra money anyway.
Funnily enough most escorts forget this and quite bluntly state you would be paying for sex on their adverts, which technically makes their advertising illegal, however nobody really cares.
Original post by insert-username
Sadly, your statement simply isn't based in reality.
Working as an 'outcall escort' is completely legal in the UK, and so is working for a particular agency. An escort agency is very different from a brothel and completely legal, most agencies are based online and do not operate an incall service. The escorts are essentially self employed and split income by working with an agency who can get them more clients. There is even a dedicated task force set up by HMRC to collect unpaid income tax from escort agencies. it's owning or managing a brothel that is illegal. It is only a criminal offence if the third party (agency) has employed escorts based on coercion, threat or violence.
Regardless, prostitution, legal or not is best avoided altogether.
Working as an 'outcall escort' is completely legal in the UK, and so is working for a particular agency. An escort agency is very different from a brothel and completely legal, most agencies are based online and do not operate an incall service. The escorts are essentially self employed and split income by working with an agency who can get them more clients. There is even a dedicated task force set up by HMRC to collect unpaid income tax from escort agencies. it's owning or managing a brothel that is illegal. It is only a criminal offence if the third party (agency) has employed escorts based on coercion, threat or violence.
Regardless, prostitution, legal or not is best avoided altogether.
That's completely wrong. Regardless of being outcall or incall, the management of prostitutes (including escort agencies) is illegal and constitutes pimping. Most escort agencies also include *incall* properties anyway. The main manner escort agencies try to get around this is the old "time paid is for companionship, whatever happens between two consenting adults "blah blah blah". Even then many still get caught out.
Prostitution is legal as long as no soliciting has taken place (whether, online, in person or via adverts), no pimping has taken place nor is more than one prostitute working in a property at any time, while street prostitution is completely illegal as is kurb crawling. The brothel definition is rather broad, so simply using two prostitutes would make the property they are in a brothel whether they are outcall or not. Also technically speaking sex clubs etc are legally classified as brothels under their definition (aka where illicit sex occurs with more than one couple).
Prostitution while better avoided is rather common. Having speaking to drinkers at pub's I've worked at, friends etc etc it's apparent an extremely high proportion of men have used prostitutes. My studies during university actually showed a similar risk is shared by 'escorts' and punters, it's mostly street prostitution that has the highest risk for women which in of itself is illegal.
Original post by unprinted
Agencies themselves are illegal to own or operate - it's controlling prostitution for gain, regardless of any pathetic attempts to deny that's what's happening.
But as with brothels, it's not illegal to use one, either to find work as a sex worker or to find a sex worker as a client. (You'd just be better off not doing so...)
But as with brothels, it's not illegal to use one, either to find work as a sex worker or to find a sex worker as a client. (You'd just be better off not doing so...)
It is however illegal to have sex with someone trafficked for sexual services or forced into it, whether the punter knew or not. It's actually even stricter than rape laws, which if the rapist proves he felt consent was given no rape is deemed to of occurred, however this is not an excuse punters can use.
The anti sex slave trafficking laws are also rather laughable. Operation Pentameter Two is a great example of this. Out of 528 claimed arrests aimed at stopping this despicable act, 122 arrests happened, 10 out of 55 police forces never found anyone to arrest under this operation and among the 406 real arrests, more than half of those arrested (230) were women, and most were never implicated in trafficking at all. Of the 406 real arrests, 153 had been released weeks before the police announced the success of the operation: 106 of them without any charge at all and 47 after being cautioned for minor offences. Most of the remaining 253 were not accused of trafficking: 73 were charged with immigration breaches; 76 were eventually convicted of non-trafficking offences involving drugs, driving or management of a brothel; others died, absconded or disappeared off police records.
After all this they found only 96 people to arrest for trafficking, of whom 67 were charged, of which 47 never reached court. Eventually only 22 where charged in court, of which another 7 were acquitted and eventually only 15 people were convicted for human trafficking after 822 brothels and flats had been raided.... and it gets worse. 10 of these 15 were actual jailed on trafficking, no evidence existed of them forcing women into sex so thus they never got prosecuted for sex trafficking (of which two women who had originally been "rescued" as supposed victims were jailed... for trafficking themselves) and the remaining 5 turned out to have been arrested prior to the operation and raids.
Over 822 raids, and they failed to convict a single trafficker.... it's says a lot for the A) The public perception of the sex trade compared to reality and B) The laws inability to deal with sex trafficking
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by insert-username
escort services are legal in the UK.
It's essentially 'private prostitution'. Escorts are free to advertise themselves online and through agencies.
It's open prostitution (women loitering on the sidewalk) and brothels that are illegal in the UK.
It's essentially 'private prostitution'. Escorts are free to advertise themselves online and through agencies.
It's open prostitution (women loitering on the sidewalk) and brothels that are illegal in the UK.
I think any prostitution is illegal
Original post by M14B
I think any prostitution is illegal
The act of prostitution, aka selling sex for money is completely legal.
Many of the activities surrounding it however is illegal. It historically stems from the fact the UK used to be the prostitution capital of Europe in the 1700's and early 1800's and the government tried to improve our image, instead of being a sex tourist hot spot (akin to Amsterdam now).... while at the same time not wanting to outlaw an act the majority of men committed at the time.
Original post by DanB1991
The act of prostitution, aka selling sex for money is completely legal.
Many of the activities surrounding it however is illegal. It historically stems from the fact the UK used to be the prostitution capital of Europe in the 1700's and early 1800's and the government tried to improve our image, instead of being a sex tourist hot spot (akin to Amsterdam now).... while at the same time not wanting to outlaw an act the majority of men committed at the time.
Many of the activities surrounding it however is illegal. It historically stems from the fact the UK used to be the prostitution capital of Europe in the 1700's and early 1800's and the government tried to improve our image, instead of being a sex tourist hot spot (akin to Amsterdam now).... while at the same time not wanting to outlaw an act the majority of men committed at the time.
You must know better, so I do not insist.
Original post by M14B
You must know better, so I do not insist.
I remember the BBC did a documentary about a year or two ago asking kids (well 16-20 year olds) about their perception of prostitution. Virtually every single one though it was illegal and virtually all where shocked when they found out it was legal.
In all honesty it hardly a subject people are A) Educated about or B) Discussion is encouraged. Imo I think this is the biggest danger of prostitution, lack of awareness in general, the awareness of how widespread it is and a lack of understanding by governments on how to deal with it.
(edited 7 years ago)
It isn't illegal in this country and most people, including myself are surprised to discover this. However nearly everything around prostitution is illegal.
In my experience, I find that older wiser people have a more liberal attitude towards it. Younger people are told it's wrong and that's what they believe. Myself though and older people in my experience tend to believe that although it's fine being legal that it should be more regulated. The law at present means that there is zero regulation. Personally, in league with most things I have grown more liberal about, I believe that although they should be legal, some moderate efforts should be made to add resistance so that they do not become excessively commonplace.
In my experience, I find that older wiser people have a more liberal attitude towards it. Younger people are told it's wrong and that's what they believe. Myself though and older people in my experience tend to believe that although it's fine being legal that it should be more regulated. The law at present means that there is zero regulation. Personally, in league with most things I have grown more liberal about, I believe that although they should be legal, some moderate efforts should be made to add resistance so that they do not become excessively commonplace.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by insert-username
Sadly, your statement simply isn't based in reality.
Yes, they are and I can point you to sources that support me. What are yours based on?
Working as an 'outcall escort' is completely legal in the UK, and so is working for a particular agency.
What I said: using an agency as a sex worker or a client is legal. Owing / running one isn't.
An escort agency is very different from a brothel and completely legal, most agencies are based online and do not operate an incall service. The escorts are essentially self employed and split income by working with an agency who can get them more clients.
Any agency involving prostitution - i.e. all of the non-scam ones - is illegal to run because of the 'control for gain' clause of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 that replaced the offence previously widely (and wrongly) known as 'living off immoral earnings'.
Control doesn't (have to) involve whips or forcing people to do something: if I tell you that there's a client at x and you go there, that's control... even if you've been paying me a commission to find you clients and that payment means I gain from it. Put another way, if an agency didn't control prostitution, no-one would call it.
Are there agencies around? Obviously: the limited number of police in this field have better things to do than go after most agencies. But they're still illegal.
There is even a dedicated task force set up by HMRC to collect unpaid income tax from escort agencies.
There is indeed, but that doesn't make it legal.
it's owning or managing a brothel that is illegal.
As previously mentioned, yep as is allowing a brothel in premises you control and various other 'running' offences.
Thanks to a bit of 1920s classism, there doesn't even need to be money involved, hence there are currently two basic offences: one for brothels and ones for brothels involving prostitution.
Regardless, prostitution, legal or not is best avoided altogether.
Hmm, why? And from which perspective: buying, selling or both? Neither are for everyone, but there are plenty of people they are fine for.
Original post by DanB1991
I remember the BBC did a documentary about a year or two ago asking kids (well 16-20 year olds) about their perception of prostitution. Virtually every single one though it was illegal and virtually all where shocked when they found out it was legal.
It's because soliciting - offering sex for money on the street or similar public place - is illegal, and that's the most public face of prostitution.
That documentary was cringeworthy, including making at least one major mistake in the opening couple of minutes.
Original post by unprinted
It's because soliciting - offering sex for money on the street or similar public place - is illegal, and that's the most public face of prostitution.
That documentary was cringeworthy, including making at least one major mistake in the opening couple of minutes.
That documentary was cringeworthy, including making at least one major mistake in the opening couple of minutes.
Oh it was bad.... it was littered with mistakes. Was interesting as a social commentary.... as in a social commentary on people prior perceptions and the media's perceptions of prostitution.
Original post by DanB1991
No it isn't. Doing it in person on the street or other public place is (1950s Street Offences Act), as is placing ads on or near public phones (1980s attempt to kill off 'carding'), but I can happily and legally say that I will have sex with you for money online or via a print ad etc.
Prostitution is legal as long as no soliciting has taken place (whether, online, in person or via adverts), no pimping has taken place nor is more than one prostitute working in a property at any time, while street prostitution is completely illegal as is kurb crawling. The brothel definition is rather broad, so simply using two prostitutes would make the property they are in a brothel whether they are outcall or not. Also technically speaking sex clubs etc are legally classified as brothels under their definition (aka where illicit sex occurs with more than one couple).
Even if soliciting has happened, the actual sex for money is legal. The involvement of a third party who has gained from the transaction doesn't make it illegal either. Being in a brothel doesn't make it illegal - it's only illegal to own / run / allow etc a brothel, not to work in or visit one.
Yep, as said a minute ago, no money need be involved to make somewhere a brothel. It was the owners of gay saunas (where men have sex with each other on the premises for anyone who didn't know) who did the quick bit of lobbying that means we have an offence of owning etc a brothel and an offence with higher penalties of owning etc a brothel involving prostitution.
Prostitution while better avoided is rather common. Having speaking to drinkers at pub's I've worked at, friends etc etc it's apparent an extremely high proportion of men have used prostitutes. My studies during university actually showed a similar risk is shared by 'escorts' and punters, it's mostly street prostitution that has the highest risk for women which in of itself is illegal.
Depends on what you mean by 'high', but yes, street prostitution is the riskiest.
It is however illegal to have sex with someone trafficked for sexual services or forced into it, whether the punter knew or not.
Yep, although you haven't got the wording quite right, it's a strict liability offence like speeding, but unlike speeding it simply hasn't been enforced. It was gesture politics, as demonstrated by the way that the original definition would have involved everyone working for an agency or in a brothel.
It'd have been easier to give the URL of The Guardian report on Pentameter 2...
Original post by Mistletoe
Probably some raghead told you that. UK has legalised prostitution, it's just pimping that's illegal.
Racist.
Plus you're also wrong about prostitution: it's not been legalised, because it's not been a criminal offence.
Original post by unprinted
Racist.
Plus you're also wrong about prostitution: it's not been legalised, because it's not been a criminal offence.
Plus you're also wrong about prostitution: it's not been legalised, because it's not been a criminal offence.
Actually I'm saying it because we have a lot of Muslims here..so it's statistically likely for that to be a cause.
Original post by unprinted
No it isn't. Doing it in person on the street or other public place is (1950s Street Offences Act), as is placing ads on or near public phones (1980s attempt to kill off 'carding'), but I can happily and legally say that I will have sex with you for money online or via a print ad etc.
Websites can fall foul of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and also Sexual Offences Act 2003, thus the specific wording used in adverts. The person advertising the acts wouldn't be causing the offence, more the person hosting the advertisement.
Many newspapers and escorting agencies have got into trouble that way, albeit the main evidence used against agencies is usually running a brothel.
Original post by unprinted
Yep, although you haven't got the wording quite right, it's a strict liability offence like speeding, but unlike speeding it simply hasn't been enforced. It was gesture politics, as demonstrated by the way that the original definition would have involved everyone working for an agency or in a brothel.
It'd have been easier to give the URL of The Guardian report on Pentameter 2...
It'd have been easier to give the URL of The Guardian report on Pentameter 2...
As far as I can tell it has been used in child prostitution cases. No so much specifically adult sex trafficking.
Anyway I included the bulk text seeing it has a few sources, albeit yes, the guardian is the first one that pops up, plus it doesn't include the information in regards to two of the individuals being jailed for trafficking themselves. Another interesting fact is the widely suggested 70-80% rate of trafficked prostitutes under the control of someone else is actually closer to 6% once you actually look at reliable data.
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