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Egyptair plane with 66 passengers disappears from radar

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Original post by Destoroyah
That's very true. I'm not saying that this was the result of a Sea-To-Air missile, as that seems unlikely. It's just strange that three airliners, all of the same type, are involved in either critical or fatal incidents, two of which are the direct result of explosive decompression caused by a bomb.


One thing's for sure - if one of the countries that have military power in the E. Med shot it down by mistake, they aren't going to cheerfully admit it.
Original post by Drewski
Why not include the FlyDubai crash in Russia? Is it just because that doesn't fit in your narrative?


If I'm correct, that incident involved a 737, not an A320. While both planes are based around glass cockpits, I'm pretty sure they ruled out anything other than pilot error, as the jet slammed into the ground when it was just metres above the runway.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
One thing's for sure - if one of the countries that have military power in the E. Med shot it down by mistake, they aren't going to cheerfully admit it.


There's also the fact that Egypt's crash investigators can't bear to say anything other than Mechanical Failure. They don't want to scare tourists away. When the Co-Pilot of EgyptAir 990 commited suicide by slamming his jet into the ground, Egypt claimed it was a mechanical error when the NTSB found nothing wrong with the jet, and the CVR clearly recorded the Co-Pilot sitting in the seat and murmuring prayers that are meant to be said when one is close to death.
Original post by Destoroyah
There's also the fact that Egypt's crash investigators can't bear to say anything other than Mechanical Failure. They don't want to scare tourists away. When the Co-Pilot of EgyptAir 990 commited suicide by slamming his jet into the ground, Egypt claimed it was a mechanical error when the NTSB found nothing wrong with the jet, and the CVR clearly recorded the Co-Pilot sitting in the seat and murmuring prayers that are meant to be said when one is close to death.


Plus there will be pressure from the airlines in question not to admit anything. This logic appears to be what's happened in Malaysia with MH370, which is why the relatives don't believe anything Malaysia Airlines tells them and why Chinese tourists have boycotted Malaysia.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Plus there will be pressure from the airlines in question not to admit anything. This logic appears to be what's happened in Malaysia with MH370, which is why the relatives don't believe anything Malaysia Airlines tells them and why Chinese tourists have boycotted Malaysia.


My thoughts exactly.
Original post by Destoroyah
If I'm correct, that incident involved a 737, not an A320.


That's my point. You're cherry picking data to suit you. You're only looking at the A320 crashes.

MH17 was a Boeing.
MH370 was a Boeing.
FlyDubai was a Boeing.
Original post by BaconandSauce
What facts do you know about the crash?

I know you seem to know 'facts' about other crashes but what facts do you know about this actual Crash

and it seems in your rush to attack you didn't read (or understand) my post

Best do the right thing and wait for the facts before deciding don't you think?

Or another way best not to day things like 'it definitely wasn't' until we know what it was

note definitely 'without doubt'

But your last line is rather telling and does define where you are coming from and why you seem so desperate for this 'not to have been a bomb'


Lmao I just told you what facts I based it on.

Evidently you're not going to read my posts so I'll end it here and stop wasting my time on you.
Original post by beta_tester
Lmao I just told you what facts I based it on.

Evidently you're not going to read my posts so I'll end it here and stop wasting my time on you.


So your facts on this crash are not based on facts about this crash but on other crashes

Speculation at best then

as I said lets wait for the facts before declaring we know what the cause was.
Original post by BaconandSauce
So your facts on this crash are not based on facts about this crash but on other crashes

Speculation at best then

as I said lets wait for the facts before declaring we know what the cause was.


As I said, read my post.

I clearly listed three facts about this scenario which make the idea of an explosive device less likely.

I'm not ruling out terrorism or a bomb, but I think the way that everyone is leaning towards a "higher chance of terrorism than mechanical failure" is premature.
Original post by Drewski
That's my point. You're cherry picking data to suit you. You're only looking at the A320 crashes.

MH17 was a Boeing.
MH370 was a Boeing.
FlyDubai was a Boeing.


Alright, I'll get down and dirty with these incidents too, then.

MH17 was shot down. No fault of the plane or the people on board.
MH370 is something of a mystery. However, unlike EgyptAir 804, MH370 has gone missing over the vastness of the South Pacific. While the Med is deep in many places, hundreds of planes have crashed into the Mediterranean and have been found, as the area to search is much smaller.

The FlyDubai crash is almost certainly the result of Pilot error and poor weather conditions - The plane was flying through a storm at the time it landed, and was also travelling too fast to land in the weather conditions presented at the time.
Original post by beta_tester
As I said, read my post.



I have read your post

I've ask you what facts you know about this crash not about other crashes that you think are comparable (again not sure how you can compare given you do not know any facts about this crash)

Look I've asked you a simple question and you've dodge it repeatedly

so I'll try once more

What facts do you know about this crash?
Original post by beta_tester
I have based it on facts.

Fact 1: bombs effects are amplified at higher altitudes, this bomb was set to go off 20 minutes before landing, a dumb move by terrorists
Fact 2: a plane swerving left and right is not possible for a plane that has been crippled by an explosive, source
Fact 3: Paris and Cairo are two of the most secure airports, given their two recent terror attacks
Fact 4: no one has claimed responsibility, within 6 hours of it becoming breaking news across the world, ISIS claimed responsibility for the previous EgyptAir crash

So yeah, keep on pretending that Islam is the problem if it makes you feel safer flying


Your facts:

(1) Bomb effects are amplified. The rest of your sentence is your opinion and fails to take account of terrorist mistakes and suicide bombs.

(2) This fails to take account of any damage causing the sharp turns.

(3) This is not a fact. It is your guess. In any event it is probably untrue. My guess is that Tel-Aviv is probably the most secure.

(4) IS is reported to have claimed responsibility.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/05/breaking-isis-claims-downing-egyptair-flight-ms804/
Original post by BaconandSauce
I have read your post

I've ask you what facts you know about this crash not about other crashes that you think are comparable (again not sure how you can compare given you do not know any facts about this crash)

Look I've asked you a simple question and you've dodge it repeatedly

so I'll try once more

What facts do you know about this crash?


I've told you already.

1. the bomb went off 3:40 into a 4:00 flight, a time at which the plane is very likely to start descending, at lower altitudes, the force of a bomb is lessened because of the pressure difference

2. the plane performed a 'left and right circle' manoeuvre after the incident, a significant bomb probably would break the aircraft in two and it would not do this, a source on BBC also verified that it is more likely to be an incident in the cockpit rather than a bomb

3. the plane left from Paris and Cairo previously, two very secure airports, given that they have been subject to two major terror attacks in the last year

4. no one has claimed responsibility
Original post by Good bloke
Your facts:

(1) Bomb effects are amplified. The rest of your sentence is your opinion and fails to take account of terrorist mistakes and suicide bombs.

(2) This fails to take account of any damage causing the sharp turns.

(3) This is not a fact. It is your guess. In any event it is probably untrue. My guess is that Tel-Aviv is probably the most secure.

(4) IS is reported to have claimed responsibility.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/05/breaking-isis-claims-downing-egyptair-flight-ms804/


As I said GB he seems to be so cock sure but in reality is just giving his opinion ,which is fine, but to then deride others for doing the same is a tad hypocritical
Original post by Good bloke
You missed another obvious potential cause: attempted hijack.

How is the aircraft type relevant to any cause for the disaster other than mechanical or system failure? Are A320 pilots more prone to suicide? Is the A320 a particularly easy plane to hijack? Are there extra good places on the A320 in which to hide bombs?


A potential hijacking would likely have been picked up by ATC since it would likely have been reported. The other reason I'm sceptical it was terrorism, whether that be hijacking or a bomb, is it's only an a320, if you're able to do it it will likely only be once, and so you target a jumbo, not an a320

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Original post by Good bloke
Your facts:

(1) Bomb effects are amplified. The rest of your sentence is your opinion and fails to take account of terrorist mistakes and suicide bombs.

(2) This fails to take account of any damage causing the sharp turns.

(3) This is not a fact. It is your guess. In any event it is probably untrue. My guess is that Tel-Aviv is probably the most secure.

(4) IS is reported to have claimed responsibility.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/05/breaking-isis-claims-downing-egyptair-flight-ms804/


I'd be surprised if a terrorist who infiltrates one of the most secure airports in Europe would make a mistake.

and ISIS hasn't claimed responsibility, if it did, it would be plastered over the entire internet and not just one obscure news source
Original post by BaconandSauce
As I said GB he seems to be so cock sure but in reality is just giving his opinion ,which is fine, but to then deride others for doing the same is a tad hypocritical


Not being able to differentiate between a fact (even an incorrect one) and an opinion is a major handicap in life.
Original post by Destoroyah
Alright, I'll get down and dirty with these incidents too, then.

MH17 was shot down. No fault of the plane or the people on board.
MH370 is something of a mystery. However, unlike EgyptAir 804, MH370 has gone missing over the vastness of the South Pacific. While the Med is deep in many places, hundreds of planes have crashed into the Mediterranean and have been found, as the area to search is much smaller.

The FlyDubai crash is almost certainly the result of Pilot error and poor weather conditions - The plane was flying through a storm at the time it landed, and was also travelling too fast to land in the weather conditions presented at the time.


I'm well aware, but nobody's saying "oh, these incidents all happened to Boeings, therefore maybe there's something wrong with Boeing".

All I'm getting at is that too draw a conclusion that something is wrong with A320s because of these few incidents is a massive leap into the unknown at this point.
Original post by Drewski
I'm well aware, but nobody's saying "oh, these incidents all happened to Boeings, therefore maybe there's something wrong with Boeing".

All I'm getting at is that too draw a conclusion that something is wrong with A320s because of these few incidents is a massive leap into the unknown at this point.


If terrorism is the root cause of this particular incident, it could just be that A320s are being singled out, for reasons that are of course unknown.
Original post by beta_tester
this bomb was set to go off 20 minutes before landing


How do you know this?

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