Men are the oppressed.
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Original post by ClockworkHobbit
1. Okay, fair enough, but more is being done about that now
2. From other men
3. I don't really know enough to comment
4. Because more women are abused, so more services are needed for women as there are simply more female victims (I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more for men, I'm just giving a reason why)
5. Because women need women only gyms because in mixed gender gyms women are often made to feel uncomfortable by the men there, as if they don't belong, or because the men are making inappropriate comments and catcalling.
6. And yet out of the top 100 businesses only 7 have women CEO's, so even if women are doing better in the education system, men are still getting the top jobs.
7. Again, I don't know enough to comment
8. Because there are more women in the world than men, 51% of the population are female, 49% are male, it makes sense that more women are getting degrees. Also, more women go to university than men, meaning that more women are getting degrees, you can't give degrees to people who aren't in uni.
9. Yeah, that one isn't fair
You are right, men do get oppressed, and there are some inequalities that men do face that women don't. However, there are so many more inequalities that women face, that men don't even realise. And men are to blame for this oppression, on both sides, most of the time.
2. From other men
3. I don't really know enough to comment
4. Because more women are abused, so more services are needed for women as there are simply more female victims (I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more for men, I'm just giving a reason why)
5. Because women need women only gyms because in mixed gender gyms women are often made to feel uncomfortable by the men there, as if they don't belong, or because the men are making inappropriate comments and catcalling.
6. And yet out of the top 100 businesses only 7 have women CEO's, so even if women are doing better in the education system, men are still getting the top jobs.
7. Again, I don't know enough to comment
8. Because there are more women in the world than men, 51% of the population are female, 49% are male, it makes sense that more women are getting degrees. Also, more women go to university than men, meaning that more women are getting degrees, you can't give degrees to people who aren't in uni.
9. Yeah, that one isn't fair
You are right, men do get oppressed, and there are some inequalities that men do face that women don't. However, there are so many more inequalities that women face, that men don't even realise. And men are to blame for this oppression, on both sides, most of the time.
4. Men are victims over 40% of the time and although overall domestic violence numbers are coming down cases where the men are the victims are on the rise (not just % actual occurrences of dv)
5. So do you accept that muirfield can only have male members? Or do women get special treatment?
8. That was the point women are much more likely to get into uni, if current trends continue gender will be more important than wealth for who goes to uni. The fact that women are more likely to go to uni also proves his point.
Original post by hezzlington
'Traditionally masculine' men aren't emotionless, blank-faced robots are they?
But, you have to define what suppressing emotion means. Men get angry. Men get upset. Men get depressed. Men get anxious. What is this idea of 'traditional masculinity believes that communicating emotion is weak'. That is not a pillar of masculinity.
No ACTUAL man thinks that.
There is, however, a time and a place for conveying emotions.
But, you have to define what suppressing emotion means. Men get angry. Men get upset. Men get depressed. Men get anxious. What is this idea of 'traditional masculinity believes that communicating emotion is weak'. That is not a pillar of masculinity.
No ACTUAL man thinks that.
There is, however, a time and a place for conveying emotions.
Not emotionless, but less openly emotional than women.
Suppressing emotion is for most purposes the same as not being expressive of emotion. Yes, men do get angry, depressed and anxious just as much as women, but the point is they're less likely to talk about it than women.
Yes it is a pillar of masculinity (I'm not comfortable with the use of "pillar" here as if masculinity is some kind of dogmatic ideology. Gender roles are just expectations of behaviour ingrained into society)
Ever noticed how phrases likening one to a girl are used as emasculating insults, and how they're nearly always linked to expression of emotion? "Don't cry like a girl", etc.
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Original post by hezzlington
Nobody has ever taught me to not show emotion.
Not explicitly taught. You're being too literal.
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Original post by RobML
1) I was just being helpful by clarifying what they said since you clearly took it the wrong way. Gosh you're touchy.
2) Maybe "men do not know how to show emotion" could be construed as sexist since it sounds like such a blanket statement, but to say a more detailed version of it is sexist just comes across as laughable denial
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2) Maybe "men do not know how to show emotion" could be construed as sexist since it sounds like such a blanket statement, but to say a more detailed version of it is sexist just comes across as laughable denial
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Women can't fix the engine of a car.
Sexist yes or no? It is the exact same generalisation as men with emotion.
Original post by IAmNero
I wasn't trying to make it one. I was just making a point that women aren't the only ones with problems, which is a thing that many ignore
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Well.. you were implying that problems affecting men overwhelm those that affect women.
Original post by dean01234
Be the change you want to see in threads.
I've been here for long enough to realise the futility of that.
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Yeah, really feminism is about gender equality, that means equality of rights for everyone, not just women. True feminists see that women have some rights that men don't and want that to change as well as the other way round, the people that believe that feminism is only for women don't understand what feminism is.
What rights do men have that women don't?
Original post by joecphillips
Women can't fix the engine of a car.
Sexist yes or no? It is the exact same generalisation as men with emotion.
Sexist yes or no? It is the exact same generalisation as men with emotion.
Yeah their way of wording it was a bit off.
Would you say "women in general have less experience and thus ability of fixing engines, as it is seen as a traditional masculine activity" is sexist, however?
"men in general are less open about their feelings, as this openness is seen as more of a traditionally feminine trait"
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Original post by ElaArslan
Spoiler
Personal comments are personal comments
I know you have your own reasons, I believe you that you don't intend to sound sexist. However,
"I believe that men don't know how to show emotion because they're taught not to"
is a sexist statement. That is a fact. Whether you can see it or admit to it is not really relevant.
If you said that you think it's okay to be sexist sometimes then I would leave it at that. But you said you were in no way intending to sound sexist so I am pointing out that your intention didn't match your action. Whatever your intention is now I don't know, but it doesn't sound like you take back your statement so I don't know how honest you are being. I suppose that's why you resort to personal comments and repeating yourself since you don't know what else to say.
Original post by ElaArslan
Well you're lucky then, I'm just talking about my personal experience with males (my cousins, friends etc).
You're generalising the entire male population from family members and friends?
Original post by xylas
Personal comments are personal comments
I know you have your own reasons, I believe you that you don't intend to sound sexist. However,
"I believe that men don't know how to show emotion because they're taught not to"
is a sexist statement. That is a fact. Whether you can see it or admit to it is not really relevant.
If you said that you think it's okay to be sexist sometimes then I would leave it at that. But you said you were in no way intending to sound sexist so I am pointing out that your intention didn't match your action. Whatever your intention is now I don't know, but it doesn't sound like you take back your statement so I don't know how honest you are being. I suppose that's why you resort to personal comments and repeating yourself since you don't know what else to say.
I know you have your own reasons, I believe you that you don't intend to sound sexist. However,
"I believe that men don't know how to show emotion because they're taught not to"
is a sexist statement. That is a fact. Whether you can see it or admit to it is not really relevant.
If you said that you think it's okay to be sexist sometimes then I would leave it at that. But you said you were in no way intending to sound sexist so I am pointing out that your intention didn't match your action. Whatever your intention is now I don't know, but it doesn't sound like you take back your statement so I don't know how honest you are being. I suppose that's why you resort to personal comments and repeating yourself since you don't know what else to say.
Alright then, let me just end this ridiculousness and say you're right cause you just don't understand me lmao. Btw I kept repeating cause you didn't show that you understand what I was saying..
Original post by RobML
Not emotionless, but less openly emotional than women.
Suppressing emotion is for most purposes the same as not being expressive of emotion. Yes, men do get angry, depressed and anxious just as much as women, but the point is they're less likely to talk about it than women.
Yes it is a pillar of masculinity (I'm not comfortable with the use of "pillar" here as if masculinity is some kind of dogmatic ideology. Gender roles are just expectations of behaviour ingrained into society)
Ever noticed how phrases likening one to a girl are used as emasculating insults, and how they're nearly always linked to expression of emotion? "Don't cry like a girl", etc.
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Suppressing emotion is for most purposes the same as not being expressive of emotion. Yes, men do get angry, depressed and anxious just as much as women, but the point is they're less likely to talk about it than women.
Yes it is a pillar of masculinity (I'm not comfortable with the use of "pillar" here as if masculinity is some kind of dogmatic ideology. Gender roles are just expectations of behaviour ingrained into society)
Ever noticed how phrases likening one to a girl are used as emasculating insults, and how they're nearly always linked to expression of emotion? "Don't cry like a girl", etc.
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There is nothing wrong with being less likely to talk about it than women. The important thing is, CAN you talk about it IF you want to? Do you have an understanding of what you're feeling and how to convey these feelings to other people? That's the important thing. Not whether you actually do so or not. I just hate it when all men are tarnished with the brush of 'Men lack emotional intelligence'
Do you not think gender roles have a biological basis?
I've never heard 'don't cry like a girl'. I've heard 'you lift like a girl'.
Masculinity is an integral part of who I am, I am just defending what I think masculinity is and what it is not.
I live in a house of 'rugby lads' and I'm part of that 'culture' if you will. I'm a man. I like sports, lifting weights, tits, crude banter (I do draw the line at toilet humour I suppose..) etc. I also like art, music, travelling; things to nourish the soul. However, emotional intelligence is exceptionally important to me and all of my friends. Most of us (apart from me
) have long term girlfriends so learning and understanding our own emotions is a trait we all aspire to develop so that relationships are healthier and happier. All of us cry. All of us watch animal videos on facebook. We are not ashamed of this. We have thick skins. Our 'banter' consists of making fun of eachothers deepest, darkest insecurities. It sort of..bonds us and makes us happier. Any man that thinks displaying emotion in it's rawest form is weak, has a skewed view on masculinity. BUT, there is a time and place.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by RobML
If not explicitly taught, then how?
I ****ing hate when every problem ever is blamed on 'society'.
Original post by hezzlington
I don't think it was from the rubin report anyway now that I think about it, but the thread did sound VERY similar to an interview I watched of Milo. If you haven't seen the rubin report one you should, it's really good. I was just playing devils advocate anyway, I suppose I agree with the points you make, other than the thread title.
Do you feel oppressed?
Do you feel oppressed?
I do, please stop oppressing you cis male scum, I identify as a purple apple and find this offensive
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Original post by IAmNero
I do, please stop oppressing you cis male scum, I identify as a purple apple and find this offensive
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Original post by joecphillips
What rights do men have that women don't?
Men can take their shirts off in public while women can't.
Men get paid more for doing the same job as a woman.
Women get longer jail time for killing an abusive husband/boyfriend, than a man who abused his wife/girlfriend and ended up killing her. (Not saying murder is okay in either case, but they should have the same sentence as the man)
In many countries women are still not allowed to drive or vote.
In schools I am not allowed to have my shoulders showing on a hot day as it is seen as "distracting", but boys are allowed to take their shirts off on school grounds when playing football.
These are just a few that I can think of.
Then there's the fact that as a female I am more likely to be raped, abused, sexually harassed in the work place, catcalled, but if I complain about it then people will ask what I was wearing, whether I was drunk, if I clearly said that I wasn't interested, that I am just making a fuss for attention, that I should enjoy the attention because it means that I am attractive.
(I'm not saying that men don't get raped, abused, sexually harassed, and I understand that if it does happen to a man it is more likely to get brushed under the rug by the law. What I am trying to get across is that it is more likely to happen to a female.)
I weep for humanity
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Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Men can take their shirts off in public while women can't.
Men get paid more for doing the same job as a woman.
Men get paid more for doing the same job as a woman.
1) That's a right? Lmao ok
2) Na that's illegal
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Men can take their shirts off in public while women can't.
Big deal. Tbh, everybody should keep their damn clothes on.
Spoiler
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Men get paid more for doing the same job as a woman.
Men get paid more for doing the same job as a woman.
This is illegal. Doesn't really happen though. What jobs specifically does this occur in, where the man and woman has equal experience/qualifications, does the man get paid more?
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Women get longer jail time for killing an abusive husband/boyfriend, than a man who abused his wife/girlfriend and ended up killing her. (Not saying murder is okay in either case, but they should have the same sentence as the man)
Women get longer jail time for killing an abusive husband/boyfriend, than a man who abused his wife/girlfriend and ended up killing her. (Not saying murder is okay in either case, but they should have the same sentence as the man)
Hmm okay. What about female teachers who have intercourse with a male student? Drastically different sentences there. A man that murders his wife will still probably get a very long sentence.
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
In many countries women are still not allowed to drive or vote.
In many countries women are still not allowed to drive or vote.
Other than Saudi Arabia, what other countries can women not vote or drive?
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
In schools I am not allowed to have my shoulders showing on a hot day as it is seen as "distracting", but boys are allowed to take their shirts off on school grounds when playing football.
In schools I am not allowed to have my shoulders showing on a hot day as it is seen as "distracting", but boys are allowed to take their shirts off on school grounds when playing football.
Bit stupid I guess. Are the boys allowed to take their tops off in class?
I recently seen a well known Golf club still reject Women memberships. Good on em, if it was the other way round everyone would say deal with it
Original post by joecphillips
4. Men are victims over 40% of the time and although overall domestic violence numbers are coming down cases where the men are the victims are on the rise (not just % actual occurrences of dv)
5. So do you accept that muirfield can only have male members? Or do women get special treatment?
8. That was the point women are much more likely to get into uni, if current trends continue gender will be more important than wealth for who goes to uni. The fact that women are more likely to go to uni also proves his point.
5. So do you accept that muirfield can only have male members? Or do women get special treatment?
8. That was the point women are much more likely to get into uni, if current trends continue gender will be more important than wealth for who goes to uni. The fact that women are more likely to go to uni also proves his point.
4. So women are still more abused, but I do agree that there should be more places to help males.
5. I do not think that muirfield should have only male members, but that is a completely different thing all together. Women only gyms have had to be made due to the fact that men often make women feel uncomfortable in the gym, due to comments made, or just the general feeling of us not belonging there, whereas muirfield is a prestigious golfing society and the fact that they are not letting women in is (in my eyes) wrong because women have every right to golf there as men do, and it's not like there is a 100year old womens golfing club that they can go join.
8. I don't really know how to counter this one tbh, women seem to be smarter so more men are being rejected, or more men aren't applying to go to university, I don't know the reason for more women going to university than apart from what I said before, that there is a higher population of women than men, which leads to the statistic of more women going to university. (A really bad answer, I know, if anyone knows any other contributing factors to this it would be interesting to know.)
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