The Student Room Group

Men are the oppressed.

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From what I have seen online and in real life, is that a large number of folks who support the MRA movement consistently complain about the pressures that are placed on men, but yet they single handedly perpetuate these said restrictive standards. And then have the audacity to blame women and feminism.

Just go on their subreddit, go on their forums and you'll see it. One moment they collectively complain that men cannot be expressive... Then the next moment they complain about increased interactions with women allegedly "sissifying" men and making them less masculine.
Original post by hezzlington
in what way has society 'told' women they shouldn't do those sort of jobs?


Because women get told that that kind of work isn't for them, that it's for boys. That girls should be doing nice things, not hard sweaty work. The ways childrens toys are advertised goes with this, building toys are advertised with pictures of boys playing with them, and are placed in the "boys" sections of toy shops, whereas cooking, dolls, and make up sets are advertised with girls playing with them and are placed in the "girls" section of toy shops.

It's the same way society tells boys not to go into hairdressing, or anything "feminine" like that, and when they do they're seen as gay, and when girls go into more "masculine" jobs they're seen as butch and lesbians.
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Because women get told that that kind of work isn't for them, that it's for boys. That girls should be doing nice things, not hard sweaty work. The ways childrens toys are advertised goes with this, building toys are advertised with pictures of boys playing with them, and are placed in the "boys" sections of toy shops, whereas cooking, dolls, and make up sets are advertised with girls playing with them and are placed in the "girls" section of toy shops.

It's the same way society tells boys not to go into hairdressing, or anything "feminine" like that, and when they do they're seen as gay, and when girls go into more "masculine" jobs they're seen as butch and lesbians.


That is because those are who are more likely to want them and this isn't a social thing there have been studies with chimps and really young children what shows this.
Original post by joecphillips
Well how else would you describe the best? The successful are seen as the best and you propose to take away their rights to determine members.


What I am trying to say is that women deserve to have the right to play and practice in the best environment possible to hone their skills, just as much as men do. Don't you agree, or do you believe that not everyone deserves the right to have the best chance to succeed. (Whether it being a womens or mens only club that is refusing to open its doors?)
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
Because women get told that that kind of work isn't for them, that it's for boys. That girls should be doing nice things, not hard sweaty work. The ways childrens toys are advertised goes with this, building toys are advertised with pictures of boys playing with them, and are placed in the "boys" sections of toy shops, whereas cooking, dolls, and make up sets are advertised with girls playing with them and are placed in the "girls" section of toy shops.

It's the same way society tells boys not to go into hairdressing, or anything "feminine" like that, and when they do they're seen as gay, and when girls go into more "masculine" jobs they're seen as butch and lesbians.


Get told by who?!!!!!

Every single one of my hairdressers are male!!!! I go to the single best hair dressers in the damn country (strong bias). They are men. They are both Barbers AND hairdressers and they are immensely good at what they do. They earn a huge amount of money for doing it too. They are not gay or feminine at all. The best hairdresser/barber where I live now is also a straight male. He's exceptionally hard to book because of the demand. Not remotely feminine.

So you think the reason men go into construction is because of the toys they play with? Surely it's the other way round? The toys are designed with young males in mind because that's what career a male tends to go for.

What? All of the UKs top restaurants are lead by men? Cooking is not at all more oriented towards females.
Original post by joecphillips
That is because those are who are more likely to want them and this isn't a social thing there have been studies with chimps and really young children what shows this.


It is a social thing though, in Finland it is against the law to advertise toys to specific genders, and everything has to be kept gender-neutral. Kids go for any toy that they like, and it has been seen that girls will go for what we'd see as boys toys and vice versa.
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
It is a social thing though, in Finland it is against the law to advertise toys to specific genders, and everything has to be kept gender-neutral. Kids go for any toy that they like, and it has been seen that girls will go for what we'd see as boys toys and vice versa.


It isn't a social thing though they marketing is towards people it is shown would want the toy and it is proven that boys and girls like different things from birth.

Wow boys sometimes like toys that are predominantly girls toys and vice versa that doesn't disprove that most like the toys marketed to them.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that at this stage men are oppressed. However they are increasingly being overlooked and marginalised.
Original post by hezzlington
Get told by who?!!!!!

Every single one of my hairdressers are male!!!! I go to the single best hair dressers in the damn country (strong bias). They are men. They are both Barbers AND hairdressers and they are immensely good at what they do. They earn a huge amount of money for doing it too. They are not gay or feminine at all. The best hairdresser/barber where I live now is also a straight male. He's exceptionally hard to book because of the demand. Not remotely feminine.

So you think the reason men go into construction is because of the toys they play with? Surely it's the other way round? The toys are designed with young males in mind because that's what career a male tends to go for.

What? All of the UKs top restaurants are lead by men? Cooking is not at all more oriented towards females.


I am not saying that male hairdressers ARE gay or feminine, I am saying that that is what they are STEREOTYPED as. I do not believe these stereotypes, but this is how society works. It is not fair. I am not saying that male hairdressers cannot be good at their job.

And toys do affect childrens views of what their sex can and cannot do, due to being told that they can't play with certain toys because they are for boys/girls, or are in the boys/girls section.

And have you ever heard the phrase "Get back to the kitchen"? Because I have. Multiple times. So is it that in a home environment the kitchen is for women? Because that's my role? And that in the working environment, where money is made that's where the man is in charge? Not at all, women get taught from a young age that they should stay at home, not necessarily by parents, but by the books we read and shows we watch. I know this because I have to fight to prove myself. Not that you'll listen to me, but I know that I am right, because this is how I live. This is what I've been subliminally taught, and this what society tells us.
a lot of issues that men face come from misogyny and the idea that being feminine is bad.. This is what feminism fights for. It fights for equality in the sexes but a reason to why most men don't support it is because they benefit from the system of oppression. In comparison to men women face a lot more hardships. You may not feel the effects of feminism because equality works from the bottom up, it doesn't trickle down.
Original post by Appazap
a lot of issues that men face come from misogyny and the idea that being feminine is bad.. This is what feminism fights for. It fights for equality in the sexes but a reason to why most men don't support it is because they benefit from the system of oppression. In comparison to men women face a lot more hardships. You may not feel the effects of feminism because equality works from the bottom up, it doesn't trickle down.


Feminism fights for women the definition says so and their actions show this.
The idea they care about men is rediculous they believe that a man should be jailed on the word of a woman alone.
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
I am not saying that male hairdressers ARE gay or feminine, I am saying that that is what they are STEREOTYPED as. I do not believe these stereotypes, but this is how society works. It is not fair. I am not saying that male hairdressers cannot be good at their job.

And toys do affect childrens views of what their sex can and cannot do, due to being told that they can't play with certain toys because they are for boys/girls, or are in the boys/girls section.



Perhaps, but we quickly learn what we can and cannot do based on our gender.

Original post by ClockworkHobbit

And have you ever heard the phrase "Get back to the kitchen"? Because I have. Multiple times.


I have not once heard this being used in a serious manner. When did you hear it?

Original post by ClockworkHobbit

So is it that in a home environment the kitchen is for women? Because that's my role?


The majority of the most successful chefs are men. Whilst it's mostly due to out-of-the-kitchen business ventures, they still know how to cook. The kitchen is a place for men and women.

Original post by ClockworkHobbit

And that in the working environment, where money is made that's where the man is in charge? Not at all, women get taught from a young age that they should stay at home, not necessarily by parents, but by the books we read and shows we watch. I know this because I have to fight to prove myself. Not that you'll listen to me, but I know that I am right, because this is how I live. This is what I've been subliminally taught, and this what society tells us.


What books and what shows?

Blaming this arbitrary 'society' is a cop out. It's vague.


(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by joecphillips
Feminism fights for women the definition says so and their actions show this.
The idea they care about men is rediculous they believe that a man should be jailed on the word of a woman alone.


It seems like you're happy to accept the struggle men face and not realise the struggle of women. I'm not saying feminism is perfect but id rather do something about the patriarchy and sit and do nothing.

Also most rape allegations turn out to be true. and women are scared and harassed into not going into the police. Futhermore people tend to believe men over women anyway especially when they're in roles of power.
Original post by Appazap
It seems like you're happy to accept the struggle men face and not realise the struggle of women. I'm not saying feminism is perfect but id rather do something about the patriarchy and sit and do nothing.

Also most rape allegations turn out to be true. and women are scared and harassed into not going into the police. Futhermore people tend to believe men over women anyway especially when they're in roles of power.


Where have I ever said that women don't have struggles and the world is perfect?
The patriarchy doesn't exist in any form.

So because of that men lose the right to due process?
Reply 135
Original post by Appazap
a lot of issues that men face come from misogyny and the idea that being feminine is bad.. This is what feminism fights for. It fights for equality in the sexes but a reason to why most men don't support it is because they benefit from the system of oppression. In comparison to men women face a lot more hardships. You may not feel the effects of feminism because equality works from the bottom up, it doesn't trickle down.


Again, that is just not true. The issues do not just come from misogny. To say so is quite offensive given the seriousness of what happens to a lot of men. And believe it or not women in this society are not always the sweet little princesses that they want to make themselves out to be - men often face a lot of sh*t directly at the hands of women but again, to complain about that a guy is told to 'man up'...by women. A woman will question a guys masculinity for fun, groups of women on nights out can become the most obnoxious, sexist and shallow animals there are. Women can get away with rudeness that a man never could purely because they are women. There are just so, so many double standards which a feminist will happily ignore. At my workplace the women have calendars and posters of half dressed 'hot male celebrities'...this is a professional environment. What do you think the reaction would be from women if every guy started doing similar? How long before they would be called sexist?
Reply 136
Original post by ClockworkHobbit
I'm not saying that mens issues should be overlooked because women may have more, I'm saying that both men and women have issues that need to be dealt with.

Suicide rates in men are high, and people should be more aware, there are now more campaigns to try and lower suicide rates. And feminists do want something to be done about it, because feminists believe in equality. I don't think it should be dismissed like it is and I agree with you on that. And feminism covers mens rights, not as much as it should do, but it does. There is a lot of work to be done on both sides before equality is reached, mens rights and womens rights both need to be looked at, and we need to stop arguing with one another about who needs more help because everyone needs help. Men are oppressed. Women are oppressed. We need equality.


While I agree for the most part, you have backtracked quite a bit there..which is what feminists do when they state they are out for mens rights too. Your original post was just awful and very, very biased. It doesn't come any more serious than suicide and the rates in men show that there is a problem yet we barely hear about it compared to issues facing women, many of them a lot less serious.
Reply 137
Original post by IHateNottingham




Those photos are horrific and only the tip of the iceberg.

Seen that article in the BBC this week about an image of a naked man and his son. The internet was largely disgusted because it seemed to suggest paedophilia. The one of a naked woman and her baby was beautiful by default. Because women can't be peadophiles and all men are questionable.

Seen the stories about men getting hige prison sentences for fairly minor (albeit wrong) sexual offences, yet women who commit much more serious offences get off without prison at all?

But feminists are shouting from the rooftops about all this of course. Oh wait, they aren't? *gender pay gap*.
Original post by joecphillips

Meninist was a joke not meant to be taken seriously.


I've heard this exact argument from people who call themselves "meninists". The fact that you are siding with an argument which you yourself have called a "joke and not meant to be taken seriously" shows how the original post and the people who are defending it are unbelievably stupid.
Original post by george_c00per
I've heard this exact argument from people who call themselves "meninists". The fact that you are siding with an argument which you yourself have called a "joke and not meant to be taken seriously" shows how the original post and the people who are defending it are unbelievably stupid.


Are you stupid? Meninism was a joke created by people who dislike feminism it didn't come first.

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