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Tuition fees are a good thing/
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Original post by NHM
I didn't mean for it to come across that way 
lol
Original post by hezzlington
And unfortunately a lot of people do. They want their degree and they want it now!
Of course I'm very grateful for how the system currently is. I got huge support from the university and if I was to of followed my own proposed system, I'd be working for at least 3 years full time before being able to afford going to university.
Of course I'm very grateful for how the system currently is. I got huge support from the university and if I was to of followed my own proposed system, I'd be working for at least 3 years full time before being able to afford going to university.
Oh wow so just ignore me then. Ok I'll just be over here then.
Original post by NHM
I agree with this post to a certain extent... I mean if you're going to uni and doing a worthwhile degree fair enough you should be able to get finance... But there is some people that will do pointless degrees like catering and hospitality for example... You don't need a degree to say you can wash a surface with some anti-bacterial spray...
If I'm honest doubt student finance will even be around for much longer!
If I'm honest doubt student finance will even be around for much longer!
Oh pls. Is that even legal? lol
Original post by 0to100
Yesssssss poor students get prioritised a bit more. On my own I'm on struggle street but with my mum at least she made like a millimeter over the line and desperately needed help , got nowt. Piss take. And some people are forcing you to go! I was forced! Paid out my pocket, now I'm skint. I agree though gap years are ideal if you tell your folks to stfu and wait till you're ready. However I took a gap yr and barely worked lol And yea it's a shame if you can't afford, I think ppl seriously underestimate and trivialise the economic issues of a student and i dunno why.
How can you be forced into going to university...
Original post by hezzlington
How can you be forced into going to university...
Have you ever heard of parents and being kicked out fresh out of 6th form if you don't go...? I know loads of ppl at uni just for that including me. I know many ppl dont want to go to uni after a levels anyway but felt pressured to.
Original post by 0to100
Have you ever heard of parents and being kicked out fresh out of 6th form if you don't go...? I know loads of ppl at uni just for that including me. I know many ppl dont want to go to uni after a levels anyway but felt pressured to.
nope, never heard of it.
What did you want to do instead of university?
Original post by hezzlington
nope, never heard of it.
What did you want to do instead of university?
What did you want to do instead of university?
Of course you have lol and I didn't have a clear choice. So she said "you can't sit around here" after like...8mths after a levels. I didn't register or apply for finance, just did clearing and paid with savings. I still dunno what I want to do and I'm a bloody 4th yr.
Original post by 0to100
Of course you have lol and I didn't have a clear choice. So she said "you can't sit around here" after like...8mths after a levels. I didn't register or apply for finance, just did clearing and paid with savings. I still dunno what I want to do and I'm a bloody 4th yr.
Nope never heard of somebody being threatened with going to university.
What subject do you study?
Original post by hezzlington
Nope never heard of somebody being threatened with going to university.
What subject do you study?
What subject do you study?
Oh ffs mate I have been I'm telling ya. Guess my mum is a unique person then, I try to tell her that all the time lol now I'm broke.
Nah enough about me, thanks for listening honestly.
Original post by The gains kinggg
Why should i have to subsidise someone else's ****ty liberal arts degree from some unknown polytechnic?
That's a very good question, with some fairly conflicted answers. The tl;dr version is that it's probably better for the economy than the alternatives, in some cases.
Even in a free market society, most people acknowledge that out-of-pocket spending does not equate to a meritocracy. But in education, due to the outcome gap based on relative wealth, even better grades or educational attainment don't necessarily equate to a meritocracy.
The trouble is that a strict meritocracy probably isn't desirable in higher education. Even if underlying socioeconomic factors were normalised, it would probably still be desirable to promote affirmative action so that the academic and professional landscapes more closely mirrored the general population. But that's controversial, far from proven, and not really directed to the point you were asking about.
Society imbues certain responsibilities on the educated. When the gateway to education is ability and tuition, then those responsibilities rest with those who are most able, providing they are also sufficiently wealthy. When the gateway to education is ability alone, those responsibilities rest with those who are most able.
In many (if not by far most) cases, those two groups will probably have sufficient overlap to have the same outcome on society. But in a few cases, society will be imbuing those responsibilities on someone sufficiently below the most able to make a real and negative impact.
So the question, then, is how much should society pay for the privilege of being led by the best, instead of being led by the very, very good? Well, that's why we vote.
Like most things, it isn't about a binary question of being fair. It's about what's best, and where that line is. I suspect that the title "Tuition fees are a good thing," really should have been replaced with your thesis statement, "Tuition fees are the fairest way," as no argument for them being good for either individuals or society was present.
(There's also a strong, but elitist, argument to make against the meritocracy ideals, in that graduates with poorer socioeconomic indicators, such as race, sex, religion, neighbourhoods, etc., earn less with the same degree from the same institution, even if they're more capable. The argument goes on that logically it's better for the economy to give the degrees to rich white males if they're going to generate more wealth for the economy. This argument ignores the value of social mobility and normalising existing systems, and their impact on the future economy.)
Personally, I think that the UK's student finance system is a very good compromise. As the person who gets the degree is likely to gain the most benefit, they should provide the most sacrifice for it. But as society does benefit from it, we should sacrifice a bit of risk to help pay for it. As the sacrifice comes after, rather than before, the degree, the wealth barrier is removed, social mobility is facilitated, and everybody should be happy. But obviously not.
EDUCATION. IS. A .RIGHT.
Imagine if everyone was ignorant on things. look at how poorly information is being disseminated about the EU. people need to have a base level of education that can allow them to assess situations.
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
id happily pay taxes for that reason, but that doesnt mean i want unis popping out of everywhere. courses should still have academic integrity and be rigorous. if that is done doesn't matter if arts degree or science
Imagine if everyone was ignorant on things. look at how poorly information is being disseminated about the EU. people need to have a base level of education that can allow them to assess situations.
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
id happily pay taxes for that reason, but that doesnt mean i want unis popping out of everywhere. courses should still have academic integrity and be rigorous. if that is done doesn't matter if arts degree or science
I definitely agree that tuition fees are a good thing. I also think it's best for anyone going to university to be forced to pay for it all out of own pocket, whether that's in the form of savings (which they've worked for) or a loan, which is paid back over a period of time when that person has the financial capabilities. This would mean that parents would have to stop financially aiding their offspring, and also that loans of the same type should be accessible for everyone, regardless of parental income.
That way, people will definitely become much more critical in making choices, whether that concerns going to university in the first place, course choice or similar decisions. Which should, theoretically, increase the usefulness of a degree, as fewer people will be getting one, which should also resolve several other issues (e.g. a less saturated job market for degree-class jobs)
As this will never happen, I guess we'll just have to live with the current system. Tuition fees atm are ridiculous though.
That way, people will definitely become much more critical in making choices, whether that concerns going to university in the first place, course choice or similar decisions. Which should, theoretically, increase the usefulness of a degree, as fewer people will be getting one, which should also resolve several other issues (e.g. a less saturated job market for degree-class jobs)
As this will never happen, I guess we'll just have to live with the current system. Tuition fees atm are ridiculous though.
Original post by 0to100
I wish I had done this, I took a gap year and was dragged to Uni. Paid out of my pocket and now I'm skint. I have no debt as of yet just completely skint and I only do this honestly like god honest truth I can't even say it right now tbh because it reminds me I'm wasting my time. I see ppl content who never stepped in uni meanwhile we're wasting our time. Maybe I'm being cynical I dunno but I feel it's pointless unless you know exactly what you wanna do and have the support to get there. I'm neither of those. When it's over I'll have a fancy piece of paper and what? I either need to finish what I've started and graduate and try to make the most of my time at uni and build connections to progress to ward my...career...or just..**** it, start laying bricks or something, prison guard I don't even care anymore.
Completely understand where you're coming from. IMO schools don't offer good enough or any at all career advice and they lack the knowledge to help students create long term plans. I am lucky that wanting to do engineering there is a lot of support around but for other disciplines there are not...
But in your case, you've started uni now so you may as well finish it, best of luck to you! And as you say networking is the best option, try to get some placements or something, whatever gets you past the front door
Original post by hezzlington
How can you be forced into going to university...
I've never heard of being forced into it per se, but is a sort of great social expectation for you to do it nowadays. My mum sounded rather aghast a couple of days ago when I told her I was considering doing a gap year once I finish my A levels.
Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
University education is unrelated to one's views on racism unless you take one of those mental social justice degrees they do in american dumps.
Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE
EDUCATION. IS. A .RIGHT.
Imagine if everyone was ignorant on things. look at how poorly information is being disseminated about the EU. people need to have a base level of education that can allow them to assess situations.
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
id happily pay taxes for that reason, but that doesnt mean i want unis popping out of everywhere. courses should still have academic integrity and be rigorous. if that is done doesn't matter if arts degree or science
Imagine if everyone was ignorant on things. look at how poorly information is being disseminated about the EU. people need to have a base level of education that can allow them to assess situations.
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
id happily pay taxes for that reason, but that doesnt mean i want unis popping out of everywhere. courses should still have academic integrity and be rigorous. if that is done doesn't matter if arts degree or science
No-one is stopping people from going to uni though. You've already some had 13 free years of education as well.
Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE
EDUCATION. IS. A .RIGHT.
Imagine if everyone was ignorant on things. look at how poorly information is being disseminated about the EU. people need to have a base level of education that can allow them to assess situations.
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
id happily pay taxes for that reason, but that doesnt mean i want unis popping out of everywhere. courses should still have academic integrity and be rigorous. if that is done doesn't matter if arts degree or science
Imagine if everyone was ignorant on things. look at how poorly information is being disseminated about the EU. people need to have a base level of education that can allow them to assess situations.
i want to have educated, non-racist people in society. university helps ensure that.
id happily pay taxes for that reason, but that doesnt mean i want unis popping out of everywhere. courses should still have academic integrity and be rigorous. if that is done doesn't matter if arts degree or science
1)nope
2)just because someone goes to uni does not mean they are intelligent. Have you seen London Met?
3)LOL
4) Doesn't mean anyone else does
Original post by K2G
9000 is a ridiculous amount to be paying yearly + all the expenses like rent, food and laundry etc. This amount adds up to about 15k a year. Unless you're bagging 15k without a problem. Then go ahead and argue this point of yours but trust me not everyone can afford it.
So i should subsidise you?
Original post by The gains kinggg
So i should subsidise you?
Personally, I'd much rather see my tax money spent on education than paying for fatties to have another triple bypass. But that's just me. Maybe you are different. Maybe you are a feeder.
Original post by inhuman
Personally, I'd much rather see my tax money spent on education than paying for fatties to have another triple bypass. But that's just me. Maybe you are different. Maybe you are a feeder.
Eh?
What are you actually on about?
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