Egyptair plane with 66 passengers disappears from radar

Just because Terrorism may not be the cause of this, that doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility of this accident being deliberate. Pilot Suicide, perhaps?

A pilot on the BBC says the last movements of the plane may indicate a struggle or takeover of the controls. Time will tell anyway.

I just hope now they can find the wreck on the sea bed and the black box.

similar to mh370

dont think it was a bomb,. they can easily examine the debris for fire damage rn.

Reply 263

Tempest II

16

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box

An interesting article on black boxes (which are actually orange).

I'd be very very surprised if French & Egyptian intelligence services weren't currently running full checks against everyone on the plane (probably with the help from other European countries like ourselves & the Americans too). The fact that they haven't released anything so far probably means they haven't found anything yet.

My money is still on an IED/bomb but I'm certainly not going to discount other options.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3598319/French-intelligence-warned-country-clearly-targeted-ISIS-Paris-flight-Egypt.html

There's no doubt ISIS would love to destroy a French airliner. However I haven't heard anything to suggest they've admitted destroying the aircraft which is unusual (although not unheard of). I actually wouldn't be surprised if they claimed MS804s destruction even if they didn't do it as the Taliban did with the Nimrod crash in Afghanistan.

Reply 264

Drewski

19

Original post by Tempest II

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box

An interesting article on black boxes (which are actually orange).

The name black box comes from the early days of incorporating electronics in aircraft, 50s era.

The traditional guys involved in building aircraft - metalworkers, engine guys, nuts and bolts people, dealing with mechanical 'things' - weren't fully clued up on electronics, it was a black art, magic almost. They wouldn't know what was in these boxes or how they worked, they just knew they went in the aircraft. So they just referred to them as 'black boxes'.

That name has stuck around and now refers exclusively to the data recorders.

#factfriday

Reply 265

nulli tertius

21

The first (possibly) genuine new information for several hours has been posted on an industry website.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0

See the material under "Data Available"

ACARS is basically the plane itself phoning home to its engineering base giving information about its wellbeing

Amongst other things you will see smoke reported in the lavatory and the avionics (electronic equipment) bay

Reply 266

UWS

OP

21

Original post by nulli tertius

The first (possibly) genuine new information for several hours has been posted on an industry website.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0

See the material under "Data Available"

ACARS is basically the plane itself phoning home to its engineering base giving information about its wellbeing

Amongst other things you will see smoke reported in the lavatory and the avionics (electronic equipment) bay

Interesting stuff. I believe this ACARS system was also used in the investigation of MH370.

The fire could well have started from the explosion from a possible bomb or some other mechanical/electrical failure. For the latter, Swissair Flight 111 comes to mind.

Once they find the CVR and FDR, we'll get a clearer picture of what happened

Reply 267

Destoroyah

9

Original post by UWS

Interesting stuff. I believe this ACARS system was also used in the investigation of MH370.

The fire could well have started from the explosion from a possible bomb or some other mechanical/electrical failure. For the latter, Swissair Flight 111 comes to mind.

Once they find the CVR and FDR, we'll get a clearer picture of what happened

We need to see a cargo manifest as well. If this plane was transporting Li-Ion Batteries, that may also be a potential cause. Several incidents have been attributed to Li-Ions in the cargo holds of numerous planes detonating spontaneously or catching fire.

Reply 268

nulli tertius

21

Original post by Destoroyah

We need to see a cargo manifest as well. If this plane was transporting Li-Ion Batteries, that may also be a potential cause. Several incidents have been attributed to Li-Ions in the cargo holds of numerous planes detonating spontaneously or catching fire.

Unlikely, but not impossible, because the cargo hold fire alarm didn't go off first.

Reply 269

Good bloke

19

Original post by nulli tertius

The first (possibly) genuine new information for several hours has been posted on an industry website.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0

See the material under "Data Available"

ACARS is basically the plane itself phoning home to its engineering base giving information about its wellbeing

Amongst other things you will see smoke reported in the lavatory and the avionics (electronic equipment) bay

It looks as if there was a fire then. But what caused it - a fault or interference?

Reply 270

nulli tertius

21

Original post by Good bloke

It looks as if there was a fire then. But what caused it - a fault or interference?

I think most people are reserving their opinion. It is not 100% certain that the ACARS data is genuine.

The problem is clearly right sided. Those are cockpit windows. The avionics bay is directly under the front lavatory. The intriguing thing is that it went from whiff of smoke to ACARS and flight data lost in 3 minutes but without triggering the enormous number of ACARS reports that one would expect from a developing crisis.

Reply 271

Destoroyah

9

Original post by nulli tertius

I think most people are reserving their opinion. It is not 100% certain that the ACARS data is genuine.

The problem is clearly right sided. Those are cockpit windows. The avionics bay is directly under the front lavatory. The intriguing thing is that it went from whiff of smoke to ACARS and flight data lost in 3 minutes but without triggering the enormous number of ACARS reports that one would expect from a developing crisis.

This is worth noting.

When Qantas Flight 32 (The first and so far only incident involving an A380) took place, the damaged and burning engine caused ACARS to throw up countless warnings.

It's also certain that the plane wasn't slowly consumed by fire that incapacitated the passengers, as the plane appeared to be fully under control right until it began to fall out of the sky.

Whatever must have happened, must have happened so fast that ACARS wasn't able to report on what happened. This correlates to the fact that no distress signal was sent from the plane before it vanished from the RADAR.

Even if a fire wasn't implicated, that doesn't necessarily rule out Terrorism. Perhaps an incendiary device was used?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 272

nulli tertius

21

Original post by Destoroyah

This is worth noting.

When Qantas Flight 32 (The first and so far only incident involving an A380) took place, the damaged and burning engine caused ACARS to throw up countless warnings.

It's also certain that the plane wasn't slowly consumed by fire that incapacitated the passengers, as the plane appeared to be fully under control right until it began to fall out of the sky.

Whatever must have happened, must have happened so fast that ACARS wasn't able to report on what happened. This correlates to the fact that no distress signal was sent from the plane before it vanished from the RADAR.

I am wondering if there are two linked events e.g. a detonator goes fizz rather than bang but the fire caused then explodes the main charge; or an accidental or deliberate fire causes a battery or oxygen cylinder to explode.

Reply 273

Destoroyah

9

Original post by nulli tertius

I am wondering if there are two linked events e.g. a detonator goes fizz rather than bang but the fire caused then explodes the main charge; or an accidental or deliberate fire causes a battery or oxygen cylinder to explode.

That is a potential cause. It's also possible that a fire may have erupted in the space between the interior fittings and the aircraft skin (such as the events of Air Canada Flight 797) where it raged until it disabled some critical systems.

Even so, if the fire did originate in the aircraft toilets at the rear of the plane (as this supposedly-leaked information states), Then why didn't anyone do anything about it?

The CVR will provide the most information in this, I think.

Reply 274

BaconandSauce

5

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egyptair-flight-ms804-crash-explosion-cause-latest-who-live-updates-mediterranean-sea-a7044546.html

'A forensic official has said human remains retrieved from the area where EgyptAir Flight 804 crashed point to an explosion on board.

The anonymous official is part of Egypt's investigative team and has examined victim's remains at a morgue in Cairo.'

Oh Dear.

Reply 275

Good bloke

19

Original post by BaconandSauce

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egyptair-flight-ms804-crash-explosion-cause-latest-who-live-updates-mediterranean-sea-a7044546.html

'A forensic official has said human remains retrieved from the area where EgyptAir Flight 804 crashed point to an explosion on board.

The anonymous official is part of Egypt's investigative team and has examined victim's remains at a morgue in Cairo.'

Oh Dear.

Be careful. That official is claiming that the small body parts indicate an explosion, but there are two reasons why he could be jumping to a premature conclusion: (a) The bodies of passengers on Swissair 111 were completely fragmented (many thousands of fragments for 220 people), and that disaster was due to a fire caused by faulty wiring, and (b) an explosion would most likely have affected only a few people initially, and the rest would have died when the plane broke up or hit the water; either way the bodies would have potentially fragmented.

Reply 276

BaconandSauce

5

Original post by Good bloke

Be careful. That official is claiming that the small body parts indicate an explosion, but there are two reasons why he could be jumping to a premature conclusion: (a) The bodies of passengers on Swissair 111 were completely fragmented (many thousands of fragments for 220 people), and that disaster was due to a fire caused by faulty wiring, and (b) an explosion would most likely have affected only a few people initially, and the rest would have died when the plane broke up or hit the water; either way the bodies would have potentially fragmented.