Would you trust the EU with an army?

Because, let's face it, at some point the proposed E.U Armed Forces will materialise with British soldiers, weapons and equipment being under the control of the European Union.

Now, my question is, would you trust the EU Leadership with a huge armed forced at their command? For me it's one of the major issues for Brexit.

I wouldn't. I don't trust the EU or their leadership and wouldn't trust them at all to use their power and, newly found army to send them off to some war that I don't want or agree with. Instead of dying for Britain, do you want to see British troops instead dying the European Union?

If we vote to remain, Cameron and, any potential future leaders need to promise to veto any attempt to establish a European Army and have British soliders and equipment under the EU's command.

Reply 1

BasicMistake

18

I don't really see a difference between dying for Britain or dying for the EU.

Mainly because I'd rather not die.

Reply 2

Drewski

19

It's essentially NATO without the Americans.
And we've operated with NATO for decades.

If there were to be an 'EU Army' we'd have to be one of the lead nations, so we'd have substantial say in what goes on.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 3

Alexion

17

We live in a world of superpowers. Our army alone really isn't that effective.

Reply 4

Rakas21

21

Original post by TaipeiGhost

Because, let's face it, at some point the proposed E.U Armed Forces will materialise with British soldiers, weapons and equipment being under the control of the European Union.

Now, my question is, would you trust the EU Leadership with a huge armed forced at their command? For me it's one of the major issues for Brexit.

I wouldn't. I don't trust the EU or their leadership and wouldn't trust them at all to use their power and, newly found army to send them off to some war that I don't want or agree with. Instead of dying for Britain, do you want to see British troops instead dying the European Union?

If we vote to remain, Cameron and, any potential future leaders need to promise to veto any attempt to establish a European Army and have British soliders and equipment under the EU's command.

In the face of Russia and whatever ISIS evolves into i do actually support a grand Euro-zone armed forces however i support just that, not an EU armed forces that includes the UK. My objection is less about dying for Europe though and more based on the lack of resolve in Europe, about those situations where we would act but Europe won't. At least bi-laterally i trust France and Poland to shed blood along side us be that in Syria or Latvia.

The 2011 referendum act includes an EU army as something which force a referendum.

Reply 5

username1204031

14

Original post by TaipeiGhost

Because, let's face it, at some point the proposed E.U Armed Forces will materialise with British soldiers, weapons and equipment being under the control of the European Union.

......Will it? Sounds like utterly unfounded scaremongering to me.

But to answer the question, yes. I'd trust the EU with an army far, far more than I'd trust our current with an army... or anything else, for that matter.

Reply 6

Drewski

19

Original post by JordanL_

......Will it? Sounds like utterly unfounded scaremongering to me.

But to answer the question, yes. I'd trust the EU with an army far, far more than I'd trust our current with an army... or anything else, for that matter.

Since it's been talked about for about a decade, it's not particularly unfounded...

Reply 7

Gavin2016

15

Once the EU gain the 'Monopoly of Violence' we will be stuck in it and they will be able to deny any future referendum, we would need an IRA style organization to get us out.

Reply 8

RF_PineMarten

18

Original post by Drewski

It's essentially NATO without the Americans.
And we've operated with NATO for decades.

If there were to be an 'EU Army' we'd have to be one of the lead nations, so we'd have substantial say in what goes on.

NATO isn't a political union in the way that the EU is though, and has nowhere near the influence on politics and law.

Reply 9

Drewski

19

Original post by RF_PineMarten

NATO isn't a political union in the way that the EU is though, and has nowhere near the influence on politics and law.

I was talking purely in terms of composition.

Reply 10

Tempest II

16

Original post by JordanL_

......Will it? Sounds like utterly unfounded scaremongering to me.

But to answer the question, yes. I'd trust the EU with an army far, far more than I'd trust our current with an army... or anything else, for that matter.

Can I ask why you'd trust the EU with an army more than you trust the UK armed forces?

I think you could trust the EU to avoid conflicts - there's no way I can imagine a EU controlled military responding to an attack on the Falkland Islands.

Reply 11

Rorschach II

20

Original post by JordanL_

......Will it? Sounds like utterly unfounded scaremongering to me.

But to answer the question, yes. I'd trust the EU with an army far, far more than I'd trust our current with an army... or anything else, for that matter.

What? Why?

What's this innate trust you have the larger powers?

Why do you hate this country so much? (That you'd probably trust America, Turkey and ISIS to do the right thing more than us as well?)

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 12

ODES_PDES

18

Kinda similar to Nato

Reply 13

user73867

19

An EU army sounds awful.

Firstly, we're the only country that spends 2% of GDP on defence so we'd be providing the bulk of the manpower and equipment. Then there's the idea of who would command it...Donald Tusk? Juncker? Have most people even heard of these people? And if you have, is it only because of the EU referendum?

Secondly, it would be NATO without the Americans. Which is basically pointless as 80% of NATO's military capability is US firepower.

Reply 14

username1799249

19

Original post by TaipeiGhost

Because, let's face it, at some point the proposed E.U Armed Forces will materialise with British soldiers, weapons and equipment being under the control of the European Union.

Why do you say that? The UK's position on an EU army is pretty clear. We won't entertain the idea. So why do you think it is on the cards? And with Italy and France sporting similar sized defence capabilities I don't think an EU army is on the cards anywhere. Sure, people are talking about it but it won't happen - a bit like Turkey joining or an EU foreign policy. People talk about it but it won't happen.

Reply 15

nulli tertius

21

Original post by TaipeiGhost

I don't trust the EU or their leadership and wouldn't trust them at all to use their power and, newly found army to send them off to some war that I don't want or agree with.

Whereas Tony Blair and David Cameron personally sought your approval before sending troops overseas.

Original post by Supersaps

An EU army sounds awful.

Then there's the idea of who would command it...Donald Tusk? Juncker? Have most people even heard of these people?

Have you heard of Mike Scaparrotti? What about Nick Carter?

One is the NATO supreme commander, the other is the Chief of the General Staff.

Reply 16

user73867

19

Original post by nulli tertius

One is the NATO supreme commander, the other is the Chief of the General Staff.

I've heard of David Cameron.

Civilians are the leaders of the military.

Big Nicko doesn't decide whether to invade a country, does he?

Reply 17

JamesN88

20

What would be the point when we've already got NATO? In the unlikely event that a non-NATO EU country was invaded it would still invoke a military response from other EU members anyway.

I suppose the hypothesis helps feed Brexiter's conspiracy theories.

Reply 18

user73867

19

Original post by Drewski

It's essentially NATO without the Americans.
And we've operated with NATO for decades.

If there were to be an 'EU Army' we'd have to be one of the lead nations, so we'd have substantial say in what goes on.

NATO without the Americans.

So, two blokes with supersoakers in a dingy shouting about how they're 'punching above their weight' then.

The West can't do any substantial sustained military action without the Americans these days. It's just the reality of European priorities over the last 30 years. We don't even have Aircraft carriers!