University College London

London

Why is UCL and KCL so lowly ranked in the UK?

So, I'm an international student who looks at international rankings. And I am quite impressed with the fact that UCL is consistently among the world's top. Same for KCL(though, not that high). How come it's lowly ranked in the UK?

Are UCL or KCL graduates looked down upon when compared with higher ranked universities in the UK such as St. Andrews and Durham? I'm pretty sure internationally, a degree from UCL and KCL is much much better than Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Loughborough Etc........

Is it worth going to UCL or KCL if I've gotten an offer from locally higher ranked uni such at Loughborough?

(edited 7 years ago)

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Reply 1

C_Richards99

Original post by KingYusHalo

Only look at entry tariff scores in national league tables.

That's why KCL is looked down upon. And why Loughborough does not deserve to be anywhere near the top 15.

University College London

London

Reply 2

Incongruous

Guardian rankings are a joke. The Times aren't much better. They take far too much into consideration the "student experience"...

Work hard at UCL and you get a great degree from one of the best universities in the world.

Reply 3

stevey396

Just ignore the Guardian. Rankings that put sh*tholes like Lancaster and Loughborough above the likes of LSE and KCL shouldn't be taken seriously.

Reply 4

ODES_PDES

Original post by KingYusHalo

Loughborough is a joke place in my opinion

Reply 5

Incongruous

The only thing these League Tables tell you is that you might not have "fun" as you would in other universities.

Reply 6

cambio wechsel

Original post by C_Richards99

Only look at entry tariff scores in national league tables.

That's why KCL is looked down upon.

This is unjust. KCL is home to Britain and Europe's largest college of nursing, such that 1 in 5 students entering that university is doing a degree in nursing or midwifery. That affects an aggregated average tariff score on entry but you'll still need top grades to study Law or History. KCL is for other reasons awful.

Original post by Incongruous

Guardian rankings are a joke. The Times aren't much better. They take far too much into consideration the "student experience"...

The Guardian rankings, properly understood, are tremendous. My complaint with them is only that they should be explicitly billed as the 'undergraduate experience rankings', as they really are. Still, what's wrong with assessing the learner experience? All big businesses will conduct customer satisfaction surveys and that for an experience that might last 6 hours (airlines) or 90 minutes (restaurants) never mind one that lasts for three years.

OP: the Guardian rankings are for British 17 year olds and should be seen by them in wider context. What you're comparing against is surveys which rank on entirely different metrics, is why there's sometimes an asymmetry in outcomes. I can imagine a survey which ranked a Honda over a Benz, if the metrics were fuel efficiency and insurance premiums.

The International rankings measure chiefly research output. For an undergraduate it doesn't too much bear on the university experience that your institution is knocking it out of the park in systems biology or robotics, and still less when you're studying Law. What does matter is that your teachers log into the VLE once in a while and your seminars aren't being led by Latvian doctoral students because the billed convener is spending the semester at Princeton; yes, I'm looking at you, LSE. It would be nice as well if the accommodation office would actually get on to facilities about that drafty gap in your sash window, thanks very much.

KCL treats its undergrads very poorly, is the popular perception and certainly is what the students there report. There has been undergraduate griping about their afterthought status for a decade and more now. The university is seen as cruising on its central London capacity to attract top international scholars and high fee-paying foreign students, with that international professoriate reifying the international rankings reputation that attracts still more of the foreign students. And Damon from Redditch is left wondering whether he mightn't have been better served in going as his friends did to a provincial campus university that seems when he visits his pals like a cosily familar extension of their old 6th form.

UCL (disclaimer, I'm a graduate) hasn't before gotten the same kind of kicking from its own students that at KCL has been par for the course, but is this year embroiled in rent protests.

Reply 7

C_Richards99

Original post by cambio wechsel

The national league tables implement subject-mix adjustments to take this into account (not perfect, but they do take it into account).

Even if you disregard looking at the entire university and focus on specific subject KCL rarely, if ever, features in the top 10 by entry tariff - it is usually in the 15-25 bracket. Having a quick flick through, I can only see KCL featuring in the top 10 for Biology, Law, Food Science (???) and Politics. Not that impressive considering it features for 30 subjects in the CUG table.

Reply 8

username738914

Original post by KingYusHalo

Why do you care? Are you that insecure as to put all of the worth of your uni into flawed rankings?

UCL and KCL are excellent institutions. Loughborough, Edinburgh, St As et al are all wonderful too. Going to any of these places will grant you access to a wealth of opportunities.

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Reply 9

username738914

Original post by C_Richards99

Food Science is a pretty solid degree, don't knock it dude.

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Reply 10

username738914

Original post by ODES_PDES

Loughborough is a joke place in my opinion

Not true. They have excellent engineering departments and the rest of their departments are very much well-respected. There's a reason a crap ton of employers visit Loughborough year on year..

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Reply 11

username944192

UCL has a far better reputation than KCL and does better in the league tables but I've heard KCL is better known internationally? I go to KCL for my postgrad and it seems to impress people when they find out where I am, despite it's lower than expected league table rankings. I don't know if it's a postgrad thing or just my course but there are quite a few people with qualifications you would not expect on a law postgrad at KCL, e.g. people who got a 2.2 in law when the entry requirements say 2.1 or first. And there was me back in August last year, worrying that my high 2.1 wouldn't be good enough to get in! I have to say also the way KCL is run (maybe just my department but not from what I've heard) is a complete shambles. The tutors aren't all that great, and the whole thing is just a bit chaotic. From speaking to undergrads in my dept that's the same for them too.

It's a lovely uni though in terms of location and the actual buildings, there's a lot going on and the societies are good. I think you get more opportunities from being in London than you would do in regional unis. I went to a uni in the south for undergrad which is also usually not great in the league tables despite being a 'good' Russell Group uni, but it was run fantastically, the tutors were amazing, there was a lot of support etc - BUT London does have more opportunities. It depends what you're looking for in a uni I think

Reply 12

Trapz99

Original post by KingYusHalo

Don't worry. UCL has a world-class reputation. KCL is very reputable as well. I would say that UCL is better in terms of prestige compared to Loughborough, Lancaster and all that but prestige does not matter except for impressing family and friends (which is somewhat important, I guess).

Reply 13

welcometoib

Original post by Princepieman

ok lets not go ott lol, one of the unis you mentioned is excellent/wonderful, rest are average.

Reply 14

username738914

Original post by welcometoib

ok lets not go ott lol, one of the unis you mentioned is excellent/wonderful, rest are average.

LOOOOOL

Reply 15

username944192

Original post by Trapz99

I agree but I imagine it probably does matter more for employers if you've gone to uni in another country. Like if that was me I would want to be sure that the uni I go to wouldn't put me at a disadvantage if employers had never heard of it or something. For me I wouldn't bother going abroad for uni unless it was a well-known, reputable one, so even though Loughborough and the other unis mentioned have a good reputation here, it might not hold the same weight if you're going to return to your home country and nobody has ever heard of that uni

Reply 16

KingYusHalo

Original post by Princepieman

I care because i'm going to be applying in a several months and want to know if the league tables are legit.

Reply 17

username738914

Original post by KingYusHalo

I care because i'm going to be applying in a several months and want to know if the league tables are legit.

No league tables are 'legit'. What they measure is almost certainly not applicable to you, individually.

Besides, reputation varies based on your frame of reference so unless you're going to tell us what you plan on doing after uni, the opinions on here won't help you much.

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Reply 18

Incongruous

There are "broad" categories of unis. If you go to "prestigious" unis like Warwick or UCL, for example, there is not a massive difference in terms of prestige. A degree with good grades from both opens many doors. One might be classed higher one year, but it isn't like. It isn't like one is that much better than the other.

However, if you compare lets say UCL and Oxford Brookes, then there is a massive difference between both.

If you apply for broadly the same rank unis, then there is no point in splitting hairs over rankings. Choose the one you like more.

Original post by KingYusHalo

I care because i'm going to be applying in a several months and want to know if the league tables are legit.

Reply 19

KingYusHalo

Original post by Incongruous

I think I should. Since I am an international, who is 99% going to work NOT in the UK, I don't think UK league table differences matter to me much.
UCL is ranked 18 in ARWU and 7 in QS
Warwick is ranked 92 in ARWU and 48 in QS

There is a big difference there and thus UCL should be a better degree for me if I work in the US