64% of TSR want to remain in the EU... share your vote

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aeroline1999

Wow I seriously hope you are being ironical. Has Dave convinced you there are monsters under your pillow too? I hope you can sleep well at night.

Taking back control over the country. It is not "same" laws, MOST laws come now from the EU. Imagine what it will be like in the future. The EU has only kept increasing its power and only a fool would think they would go in a different direction. I quote Juncker, president of the commission, himself:

The EU buys more from the UK than vice versa. Also:

11. If we voted to leave would we be obliged to accept free movement in order to have free trade with the EU?Not necessarily. Canada and the EU have recently agreed a free trade agreement which does not entail free movement of EU citizens to Canada. See here

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/eu-referendum#

.

You seem to think I believe every fear mongering statement I hear. I have reached my opinion on the EU after reading up on the issue throughly. I don't hold much weight to any arguments or facts given by either the leave or staycampaign. They are both highly politically motivated and biased. David Cameron has convinced me of nothing, andhis “deal” thoroughly p****** me off. It was a national disgrace. He asked forvery little and even that was rejected.
UKIP’s argument is immigration immigration immigration. Whatthe hell is wrong with European immigration? Most of Europe, despite whatBritons seem to think, are actually very similar to us. They believe indemocracy, they are very well educated, skilled, almost always speak a verygood standard of English. Its not European immigration that is the issue, it isnon European immigration. And yes, I am “scared” of leaving the EU. Economically itwould be a disaster, because many companies would be forced to leave under EUlaw itself. Whats more is the exit deal in which we have no control or influencecould mess up our economy, we would effectively be left like Germany in 1818 atVersailles. Europe will want its reparations.And we will not get a trade agreement anytime soon withother countries, and like Norway we would likely have to obey EU rules anywayand pay to get access to the European market and have no control over it atall.As for the unlikeness of European Unity. I refer you to thehistory books. Italian Unification. Lots of small states of different languagescultures, economic situations all united into one country. I foresee the samefor Europe. Unification is the natural trend as globalisation continues.Eventuallly it may even get to the point where all first world westerncountries are united, although that wouldn’t be in our lifetime. Also, I'm sorry I had to cut huge chunks out of your quote, it was making it really slow to type.

Reply 321

username1148663

Sorry but lol

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Reply 322

plstudent

Original post by aeroline1999

Its not European immigration that is the issue, it isnon European immigration.

Economically itwould be a disaster, because many companies would be forced to leave under EUlaw itself.

How so?

Whats more is the exit deal in which we have no control or influence

The UK has better leverage than any other country in the EU, as it buys more from the block than it sells to it. It's the biggest military power and has the biggest cultural influence.

could mess up our economy, we would effectively be left like Germany in 1818 atVersailles. Europe will want its reparations.And we will not get a trade agreement anytime soon withother countries, and

So you are willing to give up sovereignty of your country for something that COULD happen? If you think gaining independence from the EU now is hard, imagine how it will be in the future with the MAJORITY of regulations now coming from the EU for every passing year. Each year the EU will grow more powerful and the UK will cease to have sovereignty and significance as a country.

It's very simple really:
A) The legal principle that EU law comes before British law
B) The fact that most new law comes from the EU
will mean that little by little, leaving all business connections and interdependencies aside, the UK will become increasingly irrelevant as a country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XWdc6P3Yo&index=3&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe

For the record, even Cameron is on record saying the UK would do "fine" outside of the EU.

like Norway we would likely have to obey EU rules anyway

Except Norway only has to abide to 9% of EU laws. Switzerland to 0%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrMtxvVQAoI&index=4&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5IxebGGJfg&index=21&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe

I refer you to thehistory books. Italian Unification. Lots of small states of different languagescultures, economic situations all united into one country. I foresee the samefor Europe.

Unification like the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, the Balkans, etc? History shows that mixing up cultures in a single political entity is a recipe for conflict. It is only worse when these cultures are vastly different and speak different languages. German unification was facilitated by a common language, ethnic group and in part a common history, as was largely Italian unification. You can't compare that to the EU. How are Turkey and Sweden, for example, similar? Can you seriously compare that to the Italian unification?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 323

aeroline1999

Original post by plstudent

You think everybody with an EU passport is a typical European? Here is a clue: most/a huge chunk of these migrants you see coming to Europe, claiming to be "refugees", will get citizenship in about 7 years and then there will be nothing stopping them from moving to the UK.

The EU actively ships many migrants to Europe as we speak with Operation Sophia, has a refugee quota system and is discussing fining member states 250000 for each refugee they refuse to take.

[video="youtube;akNBaxK1bi4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akNBaxK1bi4&index=17&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe[/video]

Besides, the UKIP is not criticizing immigration in itself, but more so the sheer volume of EU migration, which will keep increasing.

How so?

The UK has better leverage than any other country in the EU, as it buys more from the block than it sells to it. It's the biggest military power and has the biggest cultural influence.

So you are willing to give up sovereignty of your country for something that COULD happen? If you think gaining independence from the EU now is hard, imagine how it will be in the future with the MAJORITY of regulations now coming from the EU for every passing year. Each year the EU will grow more powerful and the UK will cease to have sovereignty and significance as a country.

It's very simple really:
A) The legal principle that EU law comes before British law
B) The fact that most new law comes from the EU
will mean that little by little, leaving all business connections and interdependencies aside, the UK will become increasingly irrelevant as a country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XWdc6P3Yo&index=3&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe

For the record, even Cameron is on record saying the UK would do "fine" outside of the EU.

Except Norway only has to abide to 9% of EU laws. Switzerland to 0%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrMtxvVQAoI&index=4&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5IxebGGJfg&index=21&list=PLwbCAr7Ox3Qutz7CNq2XEMNNPu x7NGnZe

Unification like the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, the Balkans, etc? History shows that mixing up cultures in a single political entity is a recipe for conflict. It is only worse when these cultures are vastly different and speak different languages. German unification was facilitated by a common language, ethnic group and in part a common history, as was largely Italian unification. You can't compare that to the EU. How are Turkey and Sweden, for example, similar? Can you seriously compare that to the Italian unification?

But again they are refugees that through failed policy gainEuropean citizenship. They may be European citizens but they are not a neverwill be Europeans, so are not counted as European immigrants. I don’t agree with the whole “helping them off the boat”European strategy, I personally think we should leave them at sea and any thatdo make it over immediately returned. That way you would discourage them,because they’d start to realise “hmm, should I risk my life at sea only to beturned straight back when I get to Europe, or should I just stay here because I’llonly end up back here anyway” Only reason migrants keep coming is that theyknow we are going to help them. Leaving Europe will be an economic disaster because so manycompanies are actually legally obligated under EU law to have their European HQin an EU country. So if we leave their choice will be between a market of 60million people or 500 million people. Its not really a difficult one is it? Whether Britain does or does not have any leverage than anyother country in the EU, which it doesn’t, it is irreleveant. The exit deal forany country leaving the EU is negotiated by other existing EU member stateswithout British representation. This means we will have zero influence in theexit deal. And Europe will milk us dry, because as you said, they rely on us aswe are the largest net contributor to the EU budget and countries like Polandand even France rely on the money we contribute. France gains so much more thanwe do out of the EU because of the European Common Agricultural Policy. I don’t see Turkey as a European country and am strongly againstit joining the EU. Also in terms of unification, what about America. That ishard proof that Europeans can unify into one country and that it will be stableand strong. In Italy there was no sense of common culture whatsoever,nor was there a common language. “Italian” has only become popularised in thepast 100 or so years and is actually a Tuscan dialect that at the time ofItalian unification only 600,000 out of 27,000,000 Italians spoke. The onlytime Italy had ever been unified before 1861 was the Roman Empire. Keywordthere is Empire. It wasn’t unified, it was imposed through brute force andbenefits of citizenship.

Reply 324

LeonardChristoph

I find it funny that many people are citing this big list of celebrities who want to remain as a reason to vote that way, like how does the richest peoples(persons?) in the countries opinions correlate with your own. Surely if there was a big list of rich people that want to do something then I couldn't think of a better reason to be contrarian. Also that the left in England are slating Donald Trump and other republicans for saying "trickle down economics" then in the next breath will prove we need to be in the EU for exactly the same reason.
Anyone else notice this?

I say Leave and be done with it.

Reply 325

nomnomnomm

i'm french so obviously i'm biased but EU!!! EU!!! what on earth would leaving the EU do anyway? sounds fairly useless ngl

Reply 326

BasicMistake

Would it be a fair assessment to say that Leave voters are hoping for the collapse of the EU whether or not we are in it?

Reply 327

Jammy Duel

Original post by BasicMistake

Would it be a fair assessment to say that Leave voters are hoping for the collapse of the EU whether or not we are in it?

It would be a plus and probably more likely if we stay than leave, but I would not say that I am hoping for it.

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Reply 328

BasicMistake

Original post by Jammy Duel

It would be a plus and probably more likely if we stay than leave, but I would not say that I am hoping for it.

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Why would it be likely if we stay? We are a problem child in the family but if we leave, it might just precipitate the rise of Eurosceptic parties in other EU countries. The National Front openly said it was backing Brexit as it could signal a shift towards Euroscepticism.

Reply 329

Jammy Duel

Original post by BasicMistake

For the very reason it gets rid of the democratic problem children. We leave, the swedes follow, maybe the Irish too. At that point you're left with recent dictatorships and those looking for closer union; the biggest issue on treaty change is gone. If we stay we're still in the way and cracks keep growing.

What also happens when we leave is the Parliament changes significantly. Massive chunks of EFDD and ECR groups are gone (and a chunk of S&D but with minimal effect) leading to a strengthening of the EPP and S&D groups.

For reference, EFDD is UKIP's group and quite small, UKIP are almost half their members.
ECR is slightly bigger, about 75 MEPs, and set up by the Tories a few years ago.
The tories were in EPP before creating the ECR and are the biggest group with 215 of the 751 MEPs
S&D is the second biggest and contains Labour with 190 seats
The Lib Dems are in ALDE who have 70 seats and are very pro union

I think brexit would mean ALDE can be dropped out of the majority

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Reply 330

BasicMistake

Original post by Jammy Duel

The departure of major economies will render the EU irrelevant (in terms of economic and political influence) which in my eyes is as good as total destruction.

The most pro-EU countries seem to be Ireland (which you mentioned as a possible leaver) and the 2004 Accession countries in Eastern Europe.

Reply 331

Jammy Duel

Original post by BasicMistake

France and Germany certainly should be very pro, particularly Germany, but the electorate is generally incapable of seeing why because the government cannot tell them why they keep bailing countries out, it would be a diplomatic nightmare and would harm the project

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Reply 332

plstudent

Original post by aeroline1999

But again they are refugees that through failed policy gainEuropean citizenship. They may be European citizens but they are not a neverwill be Europeans, so are not counted as European immigrants.

But they are counted as European immigrants. Anybody with an EU passport that migrates by using EU laws is a European immigrant in the statistics. Almost half of the net migration to the UK is made up of EU migrants and that includes all sorts of people like Romanian gypsies, ethnic Bulgarians, Germans, former refugees with passports, etc.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/390438/We-want-a-bigger-house-Demand-Romanian-family-of-17-on-55k-in-benefits

Original post by aeroline1999

I don’t agree with the whole “helping them off the boat”European strategy, I personally think we should leave them at sea and any thatdo make it over immediately returned. That way you would discourage them,because they’d start to realise “hmm, should I risk my life at sea only to beturned straight back when I get to Europe, or should I just stay here because I’llonly end up back here anyway” Only reason migrants keep coming is that theyknow we are going to help them.

That is what the EU is doing now and has been doing for years. Farage and others have already told them to adopt an Australian strategy but they have repeatedly and explicitly refused.

[video="youtube;oKq_1mGeZXc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKq_1mGeZXc[/video]

There will be no changes and Federica Mogharini, by the way, is a former communist party member.

Leaving Europe will be an economic disaster because so manycompanies are actually legally obligated under EU law to have their European HQin an EU country.

What law are you talking about? How many companies would be affected? The EU cannot possibly legislate for the whole of Europe anyway, as many European countries are outside of it like Russia, Switzerland, Norway, Belarus and in our hypothetical case the UK.

So if we leave their choice will be between a market of 60million people or 500 million people. Its not really a difficult one is it?

Every single country in the world has access to the single market. You don't need to be in the EU for that. There is a free trade area from Iceland to Turkey now and nobody seriously believes the UK would be left out if it voted leave.

Whether Britain does or does not have any leverage than anyother country in the EU, which it doesn’t, it is irreleveant. The exit deal forany country leaving the EU is negotiated by other existing EU member stateswithout British representation. This means we will have zero influence in theexit deal.

Like in any negotiation, both parties would use their leverage and negotiate terms that suit them. It is deceiving to say the UK would have 0 influence.

And Europe will milk us dry, because as you said, they rely on us aswe are the largest net contributor to the EU budget and countries like Polandand even France rely on the money we contribute. France gains so much more thanwe do out of the EU because of the European Common Agricultural Policy.

Precisely because the UK is the biggest export market and a big contributor, the EU won't afford to ignore GB.

Do you think a wife should remain with an abusive husband just because he threatens to beat her up? I would never condone such mentality.

I don’t see Turkey as a European country and am strongly againstit joining the EU.

They will be joining sooner or later. They are officially in the process of joining and the Turkish government is pushing for accession. Recently the EU has made Turkish an official language and agreed to give visa free access to all Turks. Most EU figures are for Turkish accession, including Cameron, Merkel and Schulz. And before you say "that will be many years from now" let me ask you this: if you think it is hard to leave the EU now, how hard do you think it will be in the future with most new laws coming from the EU each year?

Polls show 12 million Turks would consider moving to Britain once they joined and there is absolutely nothing the UK could do to stop them.

Also in terms of unification, what about America. That ishard proof that Europeans can unify into one country and that it will be stableand stron

In colonial America, people shared a common purpose and a common history in the new world. They didn't have vastly different histories, languages and ethnic differences like in Europe.

In Italy there was no sense of common culture whatsoever,nor was there a common language. “Italian” has only become popularised in thepast 100 or so years and is actually a Tuscan dialect that at the time ofItalian unification only 600,000 out of 27,000,000 Italians spoke.

Tuscan is a dialect, but Italic languages had profound similarities. Germans also have dialects, etc. This is more similar to the situation in America with English than to a situation where you are trying to unify Turkish and Swedish speakers.

The onlytime Italy had ever been unified before 1861 was the Roman Empire. Keywordthere is Empire. It wasn’t unified, it was imposed through brute force andbenefits of citizenship.

The EU is not being imposed democratically. If the peoples in the different member states were asked if they want to give up control to a multinational entity in Brussels and slowly become a single people, culture, country, etc they would reject the idea strongly. This is why the EU works little by little, as Juncker openly admits.

Let me ask you this question: if the UK was not already a member of the EU, and the question was whether the UK should join today, do you think most people would vote to join?

Here is a hint: about 72% of Norwegians and 80% of the Swiss answer no to that question.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 333

Rorschach II

Original post by aeroline1999

The electorate are stupid but sometimes they make the right decisions. Here are a few recent examples:

1) Scotland voted to stay
2) Britain voted Conservative in 2015

That is why I have every confidence they'll make the right decision again, and vote to stay.

So you can't formulate any of your own arguments? Great.

Baa.

A naïve sheep.

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Reply 334

Blyat

Original post by BasicMistake

The Netherlands is probably going to follow us out

We're not crashing the EU, we're just the first brave enough to give a vote of no confidence

Reply 335

Naveed.178

I think this thread poll is rigged/fake. It probably IS, since it has been posted by a TSR mod who is voting and encouraging for remain vote.
I think this is definitely rigged.
Another proof is that you cant see who voted, whereas in the other poll, you can.

Look at the results on the other poll, which are very different:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4017243

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 336

sethy75

The eu was originally a completely different thing that it is now .
If you want to see more and more control and laws given to unelected puppets, a rising autonomous superstate, a European army on British soil and a plethora of other horrors, voting stay is a good idea
Leaving the eu will put us in a better position for the future. Yes we have a disgusting Tory government atm but in 4 years we can vote them out and rebuild all they have dismantled.
Voting leave is logical, the European Union project is flawed on so many levels.
Universities and colleges are pro European and biased due to millions in funding, however with tuition fees and accommodation fees been so high it could be argued they have enough revenue to survive with out the grants . Don't be brainwashed by the one world integration nonsense, do you think all the self serving Eurocrats on wages higher than the pm actually care about us small people. It's about control and manipulation. I was hesitant to even mention new world order because immediately people start waving their arms and screaming conspiracy nut. But look at how Europe is turning out presently, look at the hundreds of thousands of young men ( not women or children) leaving war torn countries they should be fighting for and look how Europe is almost on its knees under the extra strain in services needed.The situation is going to get much worse. We are much better outside.

Reply 337

Blyat

Original post by Naveed-7

I think this thread poll is rigged/fake. It probably IS, since it has been posted by a TSR mod who is voting and encouraging for remain.
I think this is definitely rigged.

Look at the results on the other poll, which are very different:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4017243

Agreed, this does look rigged, nowhere near the amount of representation you'd find on the forums and as you say, doesn't align with any of the other polls

Reply 338

sethy75

I would encourage people who don't understand how the European Union functions to watch brexit the movie or the paxman program on bbc ipalyer. Inform yourselves of how it works before voting and decide for your self what sort of future you want for yourself And in the future your children
Please don't believe all this hype about eu companies washing their hands with us it's all threats. Can you honestly see lidl or aldi leaving or bmw, Mercedes or even Peugeot not trading with us( just examples) anymore.

Reply 339

BasicMistake

Original post by Naveed-7

Original post by Blyat

Agreed, this does look rigged, nowhere near the amount of representation you'd find on the forums and as you say, doesn't align with any of the other polls

This poll has greater representation than any other poll by a significant margin. As I see it, the popularity of this thread lead to few people bothering to vote in the others except those who really want to make their statement. I am a remain supporter and didn't vote in any of the other polls, mainly because I couldn't be bothered.

The majority of young people support remain anyway and this thread reflects that.