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Graduate Employment

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Original post by PinkAcid
i completely agree with you, i find work experience to be way more valuable and relevant to your future career than your degree (even if its the same subject).


A degree is the theory of work, whereas work experience is the practical translation of that and you'll be surprised of what you actually learn from that than your degree subject.

Universities doesn't teach graduates how to handle unanticipated events such as customer complaints, presenting pitches to clients and talking to them over the phone and face to face.
Great thread!

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Original post by KTS89
By significant you mean relevant to the role?


No. Say I was recruiting for an entry-level accountancy job and on one day received two applications.

Applicant 1 is predicted a 2:1 in Engineering (BSc) and completed an internship in the Oil and Gas industry the previous summer.

Applicant 2 has a 1st (BSc) and distinction (MSc) in Accounting and Finance but has no experience other than doing a few months at a charity shop while in 6th Form.

Applicant 1 will be called for an interview, whereas applicant 2 will be instantly rejected. (It should also be said that in my view applicant 2 should never have been accepted onto their Masters in the first place due to lack of experience.)
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 43
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Original post by stevey396
No. Say I was recruiting for an entry-level accountancy job and on one day received two applications.

Applicant 1 is predicted a 2:1 in Engineering (BSc) and completed an internship in the Oil and Gas industry the previous summer.

Applicant 2 has a 1st (BSc) and distinction (MSc) in Accounting and Finance but has no experience other than doing a few months at a charity shop while in 6th Form.

Applicant 1 will be called for an interview, whereas applicant 2 will be instantly rejected.


Gotcha.
Reply 44
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M1011
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Original post by stevey396
No. Say I was recruiting for an entry-level accountancy job and on one day received two applications.

Applicant 1 is predicted a 2:1 in Engineering (BSc) and completed an internship in the Oil and Gas industry the previous summer.

Applicant 2 has a 1st (BSc) and distinction (MSc) in Accounting and Finance but has no experience other than doing a few months at a charity shop while in 6th Form.

Applicant 1 will be called for an interview, whereas applicant 2 will be instantly rejected. (It should also be said that in my view applicant 2 should never have been accepted onto their Masters in the first place due to lack of experience.)


Not necessarily a good example. Applicant 2 will cost a lot less to train (exemptions) and has technical experience which is very relevant in accountancy.
Original post by M1011
Not necessarily a good example. Applicant 2 will cost a lot less to train (exemptions) and has technical experience which is very relevant in accountancy.


No, applicant 2 has ZERO experience. Being able to write a few essays doesn't translate into actual ability.
Original post by stevey396
No, applicant 2 has ZERO experience. Being able to write a few essays doesn't translate into actual ability.


Candidate 2 has two degrees in accounting which will translate into some technical experience within the field.

I agree that your example isn't brilliant, especially when the reverse is not true (someone with a bachelors and masters in accountancy and a summer internship would not trump someone with a bachelors in engineering and no experience for an entry level engineering role). In fact, I'm not even sure if your example would generally hold true in the real world.
Original post by Smack
Candidate 2 has two degrees in accounting which will translate into some technical experience within the field.

I agree that your example isn't brilliant, especially when the reverse is not true (someone with a bachelors and masters in accountancy and a summer internship would not trump someone with a bachelors in engineering and no experience for an entry level engineering role). In fact, I'm not even sure if your example would generally hold true in the real world.


Yes, that's because Engineering is one of the few areas that requires a specific degree. The vast majority of grad jobs (like accountancy as stated) don't require any specific degree, which is why it is graduate suicide if you apply for one of these jobs without any experience
Original post by stevey396
Yes, that's because Engineering is one of the few areas that requires a specific degree. The vast majority of grad jobs (like accountancy as stated) don't require any specific degree, which is why it is graduate suicide if you apply for one of these jobs without any experience


Does that include 'Mickey Mouse' degrees such as Performing Arts and Media Studies?
Original post by Boreism
Does that include 'Mickey Mouse' degrees such as Performing Arts and Media Studies?


Tbh I don't see them as proper degrees but I guess there's nothing stopping them from applying and if they have enough experience to suggest that they're a lot more than a generic "Media Studies" grad (e.g. society president, entrepreneurial ventures etc) then they deserve to be considered.
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Original post by stevey396
No, applicant 2 has ZERO experience. Being able to write a few essays doesn't translate into actual ability.


Again you've picked a poor example. Accountancy degrees can save you tens of thousands in training an accountant through exemptions, and do translate into real tangible technical knowledge on the job. So I'm afraid your example was a poor one, although in general the premises is true.
Reply 51
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Original post by J-SP
Training goes beyond ACA or equivalent qualifications though. Yes they might save small amounts per exemption, but it's a relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things. Plus I know a while back they had a real issue with A&F grads having a higher failure rate on professional qualifications like ACA.


Who is they? :tongue:

I agree it does go beyond the ACA. But they say an ACA training contract costs circa 15k, so would I consider someone with 12/15 exemptions over someone with an unrelated degree+internship, all other things being equal? Probably - particularly if I was a relatively small firm. Not to mention if I hire the A&F grad they'll have far more billable days due to exemptions.

Anyway, lets not get all tied up on it, just wasn't the best example is all.
Reply 52
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Original post by J-SP
Accountancy firms generally. Maybe not the prime example, but not a bad one based on my experience. If there had been a preference for A&F students/grads there would have been quotas in place to recruit them.


The problem with experience is it's always limited :smile: Sounds like you're possibly basing this on a couple of rather large accounting firms?

The big 4 don't target A&F students specifically. That is no small part due to the fact they wouldn't have a hope of filling their quota of 1k+ grads per year if they did. At the opposite end of the spectrum, present that same choice of a A&F grad with a couple of degrees in the subject versus an unrelated subject grad with an unrelated internship to a high street accountancy firm, all else equal there's little doubt who they'd be more interested in. Given the ambiguity, poor example confirmed :h:
Reply 53
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Original post by J-SP
Let's disagree then. Anyone with no work experience is highly unlikely to get a position, while someone with an internship, whether relevant or not is in a stronger position. And that will be industry wide. So I'll stick with it being a reasonable example.


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I joined Deloitte without prior experience. So did plenty of others. What are you basing this on? :s-smilie:
Reply 54
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Original post by J-SP
Any work experience (whether relevant or not) or no work experience at all? If the latter, I am very surprised. If the former, then you support what I am saying.

My opinion is based on screening tens of thousands of applications and designing scoring systems on how to screen applications for professional services firms.


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I had extra curriculars which covered the necessary competencies. I was one of many.

I'm not arguing with you that for a big 4 accountancy position that work experience holds more weight than your degree subject - not at all. But you can't project the big 4 mass recruitment process on to the entire industry, in the majority of accountancy positions that technical knowledge, exemptions and additional billable days are going to count for more than an unrelated internship that would frankly raise questions about the candidates dedication to the profession.

Anyway, I think we've both said our piece.
You Miss....you're awesome. I like your positive outlook and that you don't let things such as a number on a piece of paper bring you down in life.

Keep it up!
(edited 7 years ago)
Its not about finding a job generally, its about doing one that you enjoy and that is meaningful. A lot of jobs can be mind numbing
.
Original post by __Anonymous
You Miss....you're awesome. I like your positive outlook and that you don't let things such as a number on a piece of paper bring you down in life.

Keep it up!


I'm glad someone happily agrees! :smile:

Original post by redleader1
Its not about finding a job generally, its about doing one that you enjoy and that is meaningful. A lot of jobs can be mind numbing
.


It is about finding a job generally because how does one who is unable to get a job pay for bills and the luxury 'essentials'?
Original post by __Anonymous
Exactly!


Some people either live in a fantasy world or does not know how life works. :p:
Original post by Boreism
I'm glad someone happily agrees! :smile:



It is about finding a job generally because how does one who is unable to get a job pay for bills and the luxury 'essentials'?


Benefits lol, jk. True however I have a job and fair enough it pays well. I need something challenging, its mind numbing for me and not relevant to my degree.

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