New rules make it harder to challenge exam results
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Original post by Retired_Messiah
But if a new marker decides to disagree with the original marker, be it going up or down it would seem to imply that the first mark given was somehow wrong as the new marker hasn't gone "yeah that mark was fair enough we can keep it at that". Instead they've gone "nah that mark is not correct" and changed it, invalidating the first mark perspective be damned.
This change is pointless.
This change is pointless.
They implement this already to some extent anyways.
For example, when I remarked and ordered my English script from last year, the comments of the remarking examiner on the first question was:
'Apt, mute response to the task, could start to go a little higher, but not necessary'
And they kept it the same.
For my last question, however, he changed it by 7 marks. So I guess, in reality, it won't make a significant difference, because candidates who are actually affected by poor examining in certain places will continue to have their marks changed
This is so not fair!Why do we always have to do the sacrifice. We have always been known as the cursed batch! This isnt fair. This is awful! I mean we work hard and dont get the exoected grades, but people who worked just as hard as us or even less get higher than us!Wth is wrong with cie?
Original post by A.S.J
This is so not fair!Why do we always have to do the sacrifice. We have always been known as the cursed batch! This isnt fair. This is awful! I mean we work hard and dont get the exoected grades, but people who worked just as hard as us or even less get higher than us!Wth is wrong with cie?
CIE are are unaffected by this change that applies to domestic A levels.
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Original post by gdunne42
Phew. But are you sure?😭😭
Original post by niv1234
How can it be bad if more of us get better grades? That doesn't make any sense, it just seems like they are doing it to make our lives harder.
Welcome to school
Original post by A.S.J
Phew. But are you sure?😭😭
I'm certain that these changes only affect domestic A levels in England.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fairness-at-the-heart-of-proposed-changes-to-marking-reviews-and-appeals-system
I can't guarantee that CIE have no future plans to change their processes but they are not governed by the decisions of OFQUAL
Original post by gdunne42
I'm certain that these changes only affect domestic A levels in England.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fairness-at-the-heart-of-proposed-changes-to-marking-reviews-and-appeals-system
I can't guarantee that CIE have no future plans to change their processes but they are not governed by the decisions of OFQUAL
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fairness-at-the-heart-of-proposed-changes-to-marking-reviews-and-appeals-system
I can't guarantee that CIE have no future plans to change their processes but they are not governed by the decisions of OFQUAL
Oh okay. Thanks for clearing it out.
Original post by Dalek1099
Is that the case for all Universities? I don't think it is.If they do honestly do that then they are being idiotic, it is simply a matter of Statistics that there will be errors in some of the marking the probability of there not being errors on any papers is ridiculously small as people are not robots they make mistakes this is why I'm not harsh on examiners when they make mistakes because Statistics show the frequency of mistakes isn't really that bad considering that perfect marking is virtually impossible.
I don't see what anyone has got against remarks myself they are a very fair system for people to check whether they got the marks they deserved, the remarks are often done by senior examiners so its more likely that result will be the correct mark.If there is real concern over remarks this wouldn't make sense as those doing the remarks will also have been marking original papers probably so are those marks wrong?
I also don't quite get the problems with subjectivity in marking arts papers, examiners should be tested whether its a good argument not whether they agree with it you can usually tell whether an argument is well structured with evidence or whether its not(to some sense its more like mathematics than you'd think, does what they quote actually support their point).The problem with subjectivity of marking should really mean marks have to be standardised(multiple markers marking each paper) if we can't improve the issue
I don't see what anyone has got against remarks myself they are a very fair system for people to check whether they got the marks they deserved, the remarks are often done by senior examiners so its more likely that result will be the correct mark.If there is real concern over remarks this wouldn't make sense as those doing the remarks will also have been marking original papers probably so are those marks wrong?
I also don't quite get the problems with subjectivity in marking arts papers, examiners should be tested whether its a good argument not whether they agree with it you can usually tell whether an argument is well structured with evidence or whether its not(to some sense its more like mathematics than you'd think, does what they quote actually support their point).The problem with subjectivity of marking should really mean marks have to be standardised(multiple markers marking each paper) if we can't improve the issue
K3 Invalid Grounds for AppealK3.1 Students cannot appeal against academic judgement
http://www.derby.ac.uk/media/derbyacuk/contentassets/documents/academicregulations/201516/Academic-appeals.pdf
This may not be the same for all university's but it certainly is true for Derby.
In the RS exams things can be disqualified due to being offensive. Mine was Disqualified for me talking about war crimes on both side of the Israeli/Palestine war
Original post by eddso
For subjective essays though, would you not agree that, with that logic, it could equally be argued that a remark may be wrong and the original mark correct?
The change is not pointless because if there is a real error in the marking then it will be changed, but if there is not a real error but just a difference of interpretation two equally capable examiners then the mark will not be.
This will stop students relying on the excuse that the examiners are rubbish, will stop students relying on remarks, and make students rely on their ability.
The change is not pointless because if there is a real error in the marking then it will be changed, but if there is not a real error but just a difference of interpretation two equally capable examiners then the mark will not be.
This will stop students relying on the excuse that the examiners are rubbish, will stop students relying on remarks, and make students rely on their ability.
What you're basically saying is English students don't get remarks, because every mark is subjective in an essay subject.
Remarks should be allowed based on how many marks it changes by. For example, I remarked one of my GCSE English Lit. papers, and it went up by 10 raw marks, changing my A to an A*. I would have been slightly annoyed if that remark hadn't been available, because I deserved the A*. Obviously everyone's going to say that, so you're going to have to take my word for it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by richpanda
This is why you do STEM. For lots of questions, you're either right or wrong.
Physics has so much potential for interpretation with 3/4/5 markers etc. I would say that you could stand to move as much as 6 or 8 marks in a given paper depending on the mark scheme and how you go about answering questions, even if you include precise and correct knowledge and answer the question fully.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by StrangeBanana
What you're basically saying is English students don't get remarks, because every mark is subjective in an essay subject.
Remarks should be allowed based on how many marks it changes by. For example, I remarked one of my GCSE English Lit. papers, and it went up by 10 raw marks, changing my A to an A*. I would have been slightly annoyed if that remark hadn't been available, because I deserved the A*. Obviously everyone's going to say that, so you're going to have to take my word for it.
Remarks should be allowed based on how many marks it changes by. For example, I remarked one of my GCSE English Lit. papers, and it went up by 10 raw marks, changing my A to an A*. I would have been slightly annoyed if that remark hadn't been available, because I deserved the A*. Obviously everyone's going to say that, so you're going to have to take my word for it.
Some students also often get their marks moved significantly down though, and, when the teacher requests the paper back, they seem to think that it should not have moved down.
1) This new change thus protects students more thoroughly from their mark moving down a grade
2) Is it not funny how, if a mark is moved down, people complain that the re-marker was wrong, but if a mark is moved up people say the original marker was wrong? Well done for having your grade moved up, but, in reality, where is the solid evidence that your second mark was the correct one and the original one was wrong? There isn't any. So this argument that there shouldn't be any changes because people's marks still get moved is quite flawed and it is very selective with the evidence it chooses.
3) Your comment about i the "remark hadn't been available" is slightly flawed because they are in no way shape or form eradicating the opportunity for a remark. They are simply adapting the policy to enhance standards and ensure fairness. If there was a clear marking error which warrants your mark to be moved up (or down) then it will still be moved so really what is the problem?
Restrictions on appealing your grade is ridiculous. For my AS and A levels I had 3 remarks, all of which went up. Heck in Biology it was a significant UMS increase, taking me from A to A*. I can only speak for Edexcel but currently the remarking procedure is corrupt anyway (opinion of my teacher who is also an examiner) so maybe a change will help increase the reliability first time. Not going to explain everything outright, but lets say there needs to be significant difference between the two grades for the new examiner to do anything.
Original post by eddso
Some students also often get their marks moved significantly down though, and, when the teacher requests the paper back, they seem to think that it should not have moved down.
1) This new change thus protects students more thoroughly from their mark moving down a grade
2) Is it not funny how, if a mark is moved down, people complain that the re-marker was wrong, but if a mark is moved up people say the original marker was wrong? Well done for having your grade moved up, but, in reality, where is the solid evidence that your second mark was the correct one and the original one was wrong? There isn't any. So this argument that there shouldn't be any changes because people's marks still get moved is quite flawed and it is very selective with the evidence it chooses.
3) Your comment about i the "remark hadn't been available" is slightly flawed because they are in no way shape or form eradicating the opportunity for a remark. They are simply adapting the policy to enhance standards and ensure fairness. If there was a clear marking error which warrants your mark to be moved up (or down) then it will still be moved so really what is the problem?
1) This new change thus protects students more thoroughly from their mark moving down a grade
2) Is it not funny how, if a mark is moved down, people complain that the re-marker was wrong, but if a mark is moved up people say the original marker was wrong? Well done for having your grade moved up, but, in reality, where is the solid evidence that your second mark was the correct one and the original one was wrong? There isn't any. So this argument that there shouldn't be any changes because people's marks still get moved is quite flawed and it is very selective with the evidence it chooses.
3) Your comment about i the "remark hadn't been available" is slightly flawed because they are in no way shape or form eradicating the opportunity for a remark. They are simply adapting the policy to enhance standards and ensure fairness. If there was a clear marking error which warrants your mark to be moved up (or down) then it will still be moved so really what is the problem?
Who cares?
1) Okay
2) People complain about their marks moving down because they're upset, obviously; they're not thinking rationally. That doesn't make remarks invalid. The fact that the marks change is evidence in itself, even if people do get butt-hurt about their marks going down.
3) No, it's not flawed, because with the new system - according to you - where "subjective" changes aren't allowed, then only the most blatant mistakes would count in remarks for subjects like English. Less obvious mistakes wouldn't.
You seem to be basing your opinion on what teachers/students say in response to remarks. None of that actually matters with regards to fairness. Pupils and their teachers are always going to play the game to try and maximise their marks. To expect them not to is naive. We shouldn't be punishing them for that.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by StrangeBanana
Who cares?
1) Okay
2) People complain about their marks moving down because they're upset, obviously; they're not thinking rationally. That doesn't make remarks invalid. The fact that the marks change is evidence in itself, even if people do get butt-hurt about their marks going down.
3) No, it's not flawed, because with the new system - according to you - where "subjective" changes aren't allowed, then only the most blatant mistakes would count in remarks for subjects like English. Less obvious mistakes wouldn't.
You seem to be basing your opinion on what teachers/students say in response to remarks. None of that actually matters with regards to fairness. Pupils and their teachers are always going to play the game to try and maximise their marks. To expect them not to is naive. We shouldn't be punishing them for that.
1) Okay
2) People complain about their marks moving down because they're upset, obviously; they're not thinking rationally. That doesn't make remarks invalid. The fact that the marks change is evidence in itself, even if people do get butt-hurt about their marks going down.
3) No, it's not flawed, because with the new system - according to you - where "subjective" changes aren't allowed, then only the most blatant mistakes would count in remarks for subjects like English. Less obvious mistakes wouldn't.
You seem to be basing your opinion on what teachers/students say in response to remarks. None of that actually matters with regards to fairness. Pupils and their teachers are always going to play the game to try and maximise their marks. To expect them not to is naive. We shouldn't be punishing them for that.
1) hahah
2) You didn't answer my question about what evidence there is that the second marker's mark is more qualified than the first's? Just because it moves up doesn't mean the second marker is more correct, and just because it moves down doesn't mean the second marker is more correct.
3) If a mistake is there, the change would be made. Let's remind ourselves that those marking our papers are professionals and to assume that a less obvious mistake would just go unnoticed by people who would probably hold at least an MA in the subject is naive. And with subjects like English, it is fairly easy to spot whether an argument is convincing, it is easy to tell whether they have got in their AO2, whether they've considered alternate interpretations for AO3 and whether they have used relevant context. So if the first marker has missed marks for one of them (bearing in mind they have to write comments as to where the marks are coming from) the second marker will easily be able to spot whether a mistake has been made.
And I am not using their responses as the basis of my argument, I am using it as an example; it is ridiculous that people blame markers if their mark goes down, but think they did great if their mark goes up. It is not fair on themselves if they refuse to accept that a mark going down means they did worse than they thought in an exam.
And yes, this is about fairness. This change helps equalise fairness between private and public schools. It brings fairness because, as the executive director for OFQUAL said, "it is not fair to allow some students to have a second bit of the cherry when the first mark was entirely appropriate". And that is the point; if the mark was appropriate then there is no need for it to be changed, if the mark was wrong then it will be changed. You seem to be under the impression that remarks are not allowed full stop. Wrong. If the mark was wrong, the mark will change. If the mark was appropriate, the mark will remain. Simple and fair.
Original post by StrangeBanana
Who cares?
1) Okay
2) People complain about their marks moving down because they're upset, obviously; they're not thinking rationally. That doesn't make remarks invalid. The fact that the marks change is evidence in itself, even if people do get butt-hurt about their marks going down.
3) No, it's not flawed, because with the new system - according to you - where "subjective" changes aren't allowed, then only the most blatant mistakes would count in remarks for subjects like English. Less obvious mistakes wouldn't.
You seem to be basing your opinion on what teachers/students say in response to remarks. None of that actually matters with regards to fairness. Pupils and their teachers are always going to play the game to try and maximise their marks. To expect them not to is naive. We shouldn't be punishing them for that.
1) Okay
2) People complain about their marks moving down because they're upset, obviously; they're not thinking rationally. That doesn't make remarks invalid. The fact that the marks change is evidence in itself, even if people do get butt-hurt about their marks going down.
3) No, it's not flawed, because with the new system - according to you - where "subjective" changes aren't allowed, then only the most blatant mistakes would count in remarks for subjects like English. Less obvious mistakes wouldn't.
You seem to be basing your opinion on what teachers/students say in response to remarks. None of that actually matters with regards to fairness. Pupils and their teachers are always going to play the game to try and maximise their marks. To expect them not to is naive. We shouldn't be punishing them for that.
1) hahah
2) You didn't answer my question about what evidence there is that the second marker's mark is more qualified than the first's? Just because it moves up doesn't mean the second marker is more correct, and just because it moves down doesn't mean the second marker is more correct.
3) If a mistake is there, the change would be made. Let's remind ourselves that those marking our papers are professionals and to assume that a less obvious mistake would just go unnoticed by people who would probably hold at least an MA in the subject is naive. And with subjects like English, it is fairly easy to spot whether an argument is convincing, it is easy to tell whether they have got in their AO2, whether they've considered alternate interpretations for AO3 and whether they have used relevant context. So if the first marker has missed marks for one of them (bearing in mind they have to write comments as to where the marks are coming from) the second marker will easily be able to spot whether a mistake has been made.
And I am not using their responses as the basis of my argument, I am using it as an example; it is ridiculous that people blame markers if their mark goes down, but think they did great if their mark goes up. It is not fair on themselves if they refuse to accept that a mark going down means they did worse than they thought in an exam.
And yes, this is about fairness. This change helps equalise fairness between private and public schools. It brings fairness because, as the executive director for OFQUAL said, "it is not fair to allow some students to have a second bit of the cherry when the first mark was entirely appropriate". And that is the point; if the mark was appropriate then there is no need for it to be changed, if the mark was wrong then it will be changed. You seem to be under the impression that remarks are not allowed full stop. Wrong. If the mark was wrong, the mark will change. If the mark was appropriate, the mark will remain. Simple and fair.
They're always trying to make exams harder. Why?
Spoiler
Original post by Spirited-Sleeper
They're always trying to make exams harder. Why?
Spoiler
Probably so they can maintain standards and increase the intellect of the nation, rewarding those who are really clever as they deserve to be rewarded
Original post by eddso
Probably so they can maintain standards and increase the intellect of the nation, rewarding those who are really clever as they deserve to be rewarded
In some instances yes, but others it just seems harsh. No need to get antsy, I've done my GCSEs anyway so... Ooops my bad for saying what I did
I just think certain things they're bringing in are unnecessary and I would've struggled in certain areas if they did bring in the changes before I'd done mine.
Original post by eddso
In those situations then the grade will still be changed? They're not abolishing the ability to get a remark, they're just making it tighter so you only get the change if there has been "bad marking" rather than by a few marks if there is a natural disagreement over an essay in subjective subjects like English.
It is hoped also that this will bridge the inequality between private and state schools.
People seem to think they are completely scrapping remarks and they are not.
It is hoped also that this will bridge the inequality between private and state schools.
People seem to think they are completely scrapping remarks and they are not.
They absolutely are completely scrapping re-marks! Information given is that "Your paper will NOT be re-marked." All that will be done, is a clerical check and a look to see if the mark scheme has been correctly applied. No paper will actually be given a proper re-mark.
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