Ex-Muslims, Why did you leave Islam?

Original post by Nuwfall

Well the islamic way of life is the quran and the hadith so anyone who looks up to saudi for religion is completley wrong

That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.

Reply 262

daal roti hummus

Original post by Sfhkh

The only forms of evidence for someone who is religious is probably the numinous, miracles, answered prayers, near-death experiences and conversion.

Also if you grow up in a religious family you look up to authority figures(Parents) or may go to mass and feel the presence of God.

Which God did you feel? what makes you so sure that it is Jehovah or Yahweh? If you were born in a different country, from different parents, in a different time, your "authority figure" might worship a different God, and hence you would be sure that "the presence" is the other God your family worships in my scenario...

Confirmation bias isn't objective evidence...

Reply 263

Sfhkh

Original post by daal roti hummus

If something so complex must have a designer (your argument btw), then God must be even more complex.

Which goes back to the original argument (what you said), something complex must have a designer, who designed the complex God?

God must have existed forever (I have no idea if that even made any sense) because God is all-powerful(omnipotent) so only God the almighty could have designed such a complex world.

That's such a tough question, no one can answer it.

Reply 264

Sfhkh

Original post by Mjcal1

I'm more of a vans guy. So, we can agree that slavery is wrong and it was wrong for God to let it remain permissible.

Saudi Arabia abolishing slavery is pretty un-Islamic, glad we agree.

Just wanted to quickly say none of the arab countries like the Saudi's. None of them can speak out. A 16 year old was killed for protesting.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 265

Nuwfall

1

Original post by ivybridge

That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.

I am telling you they dont and you are telling me they do? why so arogant for?

Reply 266

daal roti hummus

Original post by Sfhkh

God must have existed forever (I have no idea if that even made any sense) because God is all-powerful(omnipotent) so only God the almighty could have designed such a complex world.

That's such a tough question, no one can answer it.

So special pleading fallacy and circular reasoning...? (that's what it sounds like to me anyway, but if you find it consistent then...)

Anyways, you're right. I respect your belief, and it is a tough question, so it is best not to open that can of worms again.

Good day :smile:

Reply 267

Nuwfall

1

Original post by Mjcal1

I'm more of a vans guy. So, we can agree that slavery is wrong and it was wrong for God to let it remain permissible.

Saudi Arabia abolishing slavery is pretty un-Islamic, glad we agree.

It is islamic though as islam promoted freeing slaves.

Reply 268

Original post by Nuwfall

I am telling you they dont and you are telling me they do? why so arogant for?

You don't even know what arrogant means. :rofl:

Moreover, because you're wrong.

Reply 269

Bliss_

9

Original post by ivybridge

That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.

according to your logic i can see that donald trump will represent america in a couple of months. does that make americans islamophobic, arrogant, and rude like donald trump? No. Similarly 1) the qualities of saudia arabia shouldnt be assumed to be the qualities of ALL muslims.
2) the doings of terrorists and stupid suicidal groups should not have to do anything with muslims.
its just not fair that all of us get blamed for doings of a group of people that we have nothing in commom with except that they call themselves "muslims". get your facts right before i die of peoples arrogance and ignorance

Reply 270

Original post by Bliss_

according to your logic i can see that donald trump will represent america in a couple of months. does that make americans islamophobic, arrogant, and rude like donald trump? No. Similarly 1) the qualities of saudia arabia shouldnt be assumed to be the qualities of ALL muslims.
2) the doings of terrorists and stupid suicidal groups should not have to do anything with muslims.
its just not fair that all of us get blamed for doings of a group of people that we have nothing in commom with except that they call themselves "muslims". get your facts right before i die of peoples arrogance and ignorance

That wasn't the argument being made - the argument being made was that the President can be seen to represent the United States of America. I did not say that representation was accurate and I think we can all agree that representation in the Middle East is a bit different to what it is in the West.

The funniest thing about this is you're completely bashing me for something I not only never said but spend a lot of time on here arguing for! I am one of few users who consistently slams anti-muslim rhetoric and argues exactly what you have just said about tarring all with the same brush. As such, I completely resent your ignorant and unreasonable tone.

Reply 271

Mjcal1

Original post by Nuwfall

It is islamic though as islam promoted freeing slaves.

So, having a slave today 31st may 2016 are people still allowed to own slaves? Yes. The fact that the prophet promoted freeing slaves doesn't really redeem it. What about all those that were slaves over the years? Don't they matter, they had their own lives and ambitions cut because they had to serve their masters. If the prophet came today, a lot of Islam would be different, so to say Islam is timeless Imo is wrong

Reply 272

paragonofpie

Original post by ivybridge

That's neither here nor there. You said they don't represent Islam - they do. They represent the Islamic world as much as the Queen and Downing Street are seen as representatives of Great Britain, or Obama as a representative of the United States - even better, the USA as the leading representative of Capitalism.

The Saud family represent egocentric maniacs that can only be wrought out from greed and capitalism and in now way are their actions Islamic. Are they caliphs?

Reply 273

Original post by paragonofpie

The Saud family represent egocentric maniacs that can only be wrought out from greed and capitalism and in now way are their actions Islamic. Are they caliphs?

Again you, like @Bliss_, are completely misinterpreting my comments.

Reply 274

Sfhkh

Original post by ivybridge

That wasn't the argument being made - the argument being made was that the President can be seen to represent the United States of America. I did not say that representation was accurate and I think we can all agree that representation in the Middle East is a bit different to what it is in the West.

The funniest thing about this is you're completely bashing me for something I not only never said but spend a lot of time on here arguing for! I am one of few users who consistently slams anti-muslim rhetoric and argues exactly what you have just said about tarring all with the same brush. As such, I completely resent your ignorant and unreasonable tone.

Talking about the homophobic subject. I watch lots of youtube videos, so i stumbled upon Riyadh K. Riyadh is a muslim who is gay which is shocking to most people. His mothers English and Father's Iraqi. At first his father wanted to commit suicide but soon pushed away and loved his son even though Riyadh is gay.
Proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbDCl5pcpz0

Reply 275

Nuwfall

1

Original post by Mjcal1

So, having a slave today 31st may 2016 are people still allowed to own slaves? Yes. The fact that the prophet promoted freeing slaves doesn't really redeem it. What about all those that were slaves over the years? Don't they matter, they had their own lives and ambitions cut because they had to serve their masters. If the prophet came today, a lot of Islam would be different, so to say Islam is timeless Imo is wrong

Read this please https://islamqa.info/en/94840

Reply 276

Original post by Sfhkh

Talking about the homophobic subject. I watch lots of youtube videos, so i stumbled upon Riyadh K. Riyadh is a muslim who is gay which is shocking to most people. His mothers English and Father's Iraqi. At first his father wanted to commit suicide but soon pushed away and loved his son even though Riyadh is gay.
Proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbDCl5pcpz0

Yes, and? I didn't say anything the individuals, I was referring to the ideology. My best friend and his family are muslims... I am gay... never met a nicer group of people.

Reply 277

Bliss_

9

Original post by ivybridge

That wasn't the argument being made - the argument being made was that the President can be seen to represent the United States of America. I did not say that representation was accurate and I think we can all agree that representation in the Middle East is a bit different to what it is in the West.

The funniest thing about this is you're completely bashing me for something I not only never said but spend a lot of time on here arguing for! I am one of few users who consistently slams anti-muslim rhetoric and argues exactly what you have just said about tarring all with the same brush. As such, I completely resent your ignorant and unreasonable tone.

I dont understand how i was unreasonable and ignorant just cause what you wrote probably didnt match with what you meant and lead to you thing 2 people didnt get what you were tryna say. Anywho, i'd like to end this on a lighter note by saying thanks for slamming anti-muslim rhetoric. good day pal

Reply 278

paragonofpie

Original post by daal roti hummus

Which God did you feel? what makes you so sure that it is Jehovah or Yahweh? If you were born in a different country, from different parents, in a different time, your "authority figure" might worship a different God, and hence you would be sure that "the presence" is the other God your family worships in my scenario...

Confirmation bias isn't objective evidence...

However, your point is can be ignored and is incorrect to some extent as not only religious exclusivism (pertaining to religion exists) as inclusivism and religious pluralism exists as well.

Reply 279

Mjcal1