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Original post by paragonofpie
actually quite the opposite religions are quit concrete and have boundaries .However, all these boundaries are shared by many other religions which would go against the original point that religions are contradictory.


They have concrete boundaries but people change the boundaries to suit their own needs and create their own sects?

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Without free will we are like angels. Believe in them or not they obey God without question. Not a single angel is bad ,Why? because they have no free will. Just a point the devil is not an angel as that will make gods creation faulty he is something else and there is no point to go into that unless someone requests it.
Original post by paragonofpie
how do you know this a fact or statistic have you done a lengthy study?


It's not about parents is about morality it show's even-though you claim to be "extremely" religious and you might have been , your actual knowledge and critical thinking is severely underdeveloped.Both MEN and WOMEN have to cover themselves albeit men to a lesser extent but that's because of biological differences and women in front of women can cover a LOT less.



Thats quite hypocritical as you never would have had to mention the fact you were bisexual unless it was of some worth to your departure from Islam.



Actually my knowledge is fine. Its not about morality at all. I simply stated that women have to cover up whilst praying (which you have stated you have agreed with) and hence if she is no longer muslim the only reason she would continue to wear the scarf is to keep an appearance up.

So all I said was women have to cover up when praying. That is the only point I made and you replied with

"Both MEN and WOMEN have to cover themselves"

Which therefore means you agree. I never stated anything about men so I have no idea why you're trying to imply that I said Men dont need to cover.

From this reply it seems you are simply trying to argue and to show off your ego. Especially considering you agreed with my point but proceeded to state "my knowledge is underdeveloped".

I dont mind but we will have to continue this tomorrow as I'm off to bed now.
Reply 323
Original post by Nuwfall
Well read it because i dont know. I read it and it made so much sense but i dont know what your misconceptions are. If your saying its too long it proved you dont want to know making this argument pointless as you think you are right.

You don't understand. NOTHING will justify slavery for me. Unless it's says slavery is WRONG I have no bussiness reading it.
Reply 324
Original post by paragonofpie
He is obviously going for a much larger definition of morality and you are either to stupid to realize it or a purposefully constructing a strawman.


Um *She and yeah that's what I thought.
Original post by daal roti hummus
They have concrete boundaries but people change the boundaries to suit their own needs and create their own sects?

Posted from TSR Mobile


Really straw-man again after you apologized for it just now? My explanation is that Islams boundaries have existed concrete that's why Islam is often made fun of as people see as a relic of the past and it is not abused to use on people and for the current culture.While arguably Christianity has .Them overlapping just shows theirs no contradictions in religion a point you first argued.
Reply 326
Original post by Cobalt_
Respect may have been a bad word to use however.
I dont care if someone insults my atheism, go for it all day. It'll actually be funny to me, "something out of nothing", "you guys have no morals" blah blah.

The point I was trying to get across is: Everyone assumes anyone who leaves Islam is a minion of the bloody anti christ. That the Shaytaan influenced us that much, we're blind to the real truth in Islam. If someone has left Islam you should leave them, not try to hold your arrogance above them.

Bad choice of wording I know.


*not everyone
*yeah bad choice of wording xD
Reply 327
Original post by paragonofpie
In both Judaism and Christianity, slavery is allowed. To some extent, slavery is a part of Human nature.I can guess after reading that point , you will be building with guile and discontent , and well i understand but there are more slave TODAY then in when black slaves where captured by the UK and sent throughout the transatlantic slave trade. And i emphasis and mean that these AREN'T sweatshop workers these are actual hard labor / sex slaves that exist in the world.But where is all the outcry? Anyway leading onto my main point as much as you might deny it ,slavery is sadly deeply ingrained in Human nature and all Islam has done is try to solve it and improve the conditions of slave's as it is impossible to abolish it even sadly in the foreseeable future.

Nice! The classic "other popular religions allow it aswell so we're good"

Did you really say slavery is a part of human nature????? Is murder also a part of human nature??? Should we go around killing people because of our human nature??? (I'm face palming so hard right now)

I know there are large number of slaves all around the world (even in the western world like sex trafficking) the BIG difference is, on one hand you've got criminals and their customers saying it's ok and on the other you've got none other than Lord of the worlds, the most compassionate saying it's ok. Can you see why people might have a bigger problem with the latter?

Then you continue talking about human nature yada yada. Think about it before you reply, don't you think people could have self control of not owning a slave. I've never thought about it, maybe you just have a burning desire to own slaves.

Omg I really can't believe you said that. Ffs lol
Reply 328
Original post by Cobalt_
I was going to get married to a women at like 18ish, thats how strong my deen was. I was happy being pretty unhappy as long as I was following Islam.


Hey not to do with Islam much but why would you be unhappy marrying a woman if you're bisexual? I mean you're equally attracted to people of both sexes so even in a society or religion where it's considered 'wrong' to get with a person of the same sex, or say if there was an alternate universe where you couldn't get with a person of the opposite sex, you could still happily marry or date someone of the sex that society or said religion expects you to get with.

You get me? Like why would it make you unhappy to marry a female if you're bi?

No hate genuinely curious xP
Original post by Sfhkh
God must have existed forever (I have no idea if that even made any sense) because God is all-powerful(omnipotent) so only God the almighty could have designed such a complex world.

That's such a tough question, no one can answer it.


Special Pleading fallacy.
Original post by paragonofpie
Really straw-man again after you apologized for it just now? My explanation is that Islams boundaries have existed concrete that's why Islam is often made fun of as people see as a relic of the past and it is not abused to use on people and for the current culture.While arguably Christianity has .Them overlapping just shows theirs no contradictions in religion a point you first argued.


I apologised for "being stupid"

You said some sects had more overlapping (for e.g. with the alcohol issue), hence people have chosen their boundaries to be different than other sects. Hence, people chose their boundaries (which are different to other people's boundaries).

Where's the strawman.

Original post by paragonofpie
that's why Islam is often made fun of as people see as a relic of the past


Yes I get it. Islamophobia.

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Original post by Nuwfall
Without free will we are like angels. Believe in them or not they obey God without question. Not a single angel is bad ,Why? because they have no free will. Just a point the devil is not an angel as that will make gods creation faulty he is something else and there is no point to go into that unless someone requests it.


No evidence for either angels or the devil.
Original post by Cobalt_
Actually my knowledge is fine. Its not about morality at all. I simply stated that women have to cover up whilst praying (which you have stated you have agreed with) and hence if she is no longer muslim the only reason she would continue to wear the scarf is to keep an appearance up.

So all I said was women have to cover up when praying. That is the only point I made and you replied with

"Both MEN and WOMEN have to cover themselves"

Which therefore means you agree. I never stated anything about men so I have no idea why you're trying to imply that I said Men dont need to cover.

From this reply it seems you are simply trying to argue and to show off your ego. Especially considering you agreed with my point but proceeded to state "my knowledge is underdeveloped".

I dont mind but we will have to continue this tomorrow as I'm off to bed now.


what are you even rambling about I'm honestly confused.And you not accepting your lack in knowledge and simply saying "my knowledge is fine" and calling me egotistical could maybe mirror yourself.

But i digress as I'm not to fond of committing ad hominem attacks like someone..
Firstly, you do imply men might not have to cover themselves up to maybe frame Islam to be a harsh to women and quite unequal.Secondly, this isn't just about you , it also helps to explain to the non-Muslims reading the thread and clarify somethings. As saying white people were good would suggest that black people are bad as it doesn't paint a full story.
And finally , to my actual point , the Qur'an only asks of people to COVER their awrah and doesn't give an required actual method to do it . Therefore, wearing a head scarf would suggest your from the Indian subcontinent
and head scarf's aren't done for "appearances" but rather exists cultural differences which all lead to people covering themselves due to religious purposes.
Original post by Mjcal1
Nice! The classic "other popular religions allow it aswell so we're good"

Did you really say slavery is a part of human nature????? Is murder also a part of human nature??? Should we go around killing people because of our human nature??? (I'm face palming so hard right now)

I know there are large number of slaves all around the world (even in the western world like sex trafficking) the BIG difference is, on one hand you've got criminals and their customers saying it's ok and on the other you've got none other than Lord of the worlds, the most compassionate saying it's ok. Can you see why people might have a bigger problem with the latter?

Then you continue talking about human nature yada yada. Think about it before you reply, don't you think people could have self control of not owning a slave. I've never thought about it, maybe you just have a burning desire to own slaves.

Omg I really can't believe you said that. Ffs lol

well done you missed my whole point. My point is slavery will exist and Islam try's to do everything it can to stop it by lessening the impact it has on slaves.Secondly , Islam would never have been accepted in the culture 1000 years ago therefore it was per missed.
Original post by Kraixo
If the conditions are met it doesn't seem messed up to me and you demonstrated clear lack of knowledge on how the sharia works And no Mutah was never allowed ever, nor was it practised by the salaf those shia believes are based on fabrications.


You're kidding, right?

"It was narrated that Ibn 'Umar said:

"When 'Umar bin Khattab was appointed caliph, he addressed the people and said: 'The Messenger of Allah permitted temporary marriage for us three times, then he forbade it. By Allah, If I hear of any married person entering a temporary marriage, I will stone him to death, unless he can bring me four witnesses who will testify that the Messenger of Allah, allowed it after he forbade it'." "

Source: Sunan Ibn Majah (*Vol. 3, Book 9, Hadith 1963)


"Salama b. al. Akwa' and Jabir b. Abdullah reported:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to us and permitted us to contract temporary marriage.
"
Sahih Muslim (Book 16, Hadith 17)
http://sunnah.com/muslim/16/17

These are Sunni hadith btw.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Lol I just realized this is in Faith and Spirituality.
Would probably be closed soon...
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 336
Original post by paragonofpie
well done you missed my whole point. My point is slavery will exist and Islam try's to do everything it can to stop it by lessening the impact it has on slaves.Secondly , Islam would never have been accepted in the culture 1000 years ago therefore it was per missed.

Weak. So for Islam to 'fit' in, God compromised on his morals? But somehow it's a message for all of mankind?

^this really makes sense to you?

also, what do you consider more, a part of human nature, owning slaves or murder. (I would say the latter)

Does that mean you could rationalise murder? (Most people would say no, because they should show some self control)
Original post by Mjcal1
Weak. So for Islam to 'fit' in, God compromised on his morals? But somehow it's a message for all of mankind?

^this really makes sense to you?

also, what do you consider more, a part of human nature, owning slaves or murder. (I would say the latter)

Does that mean you could rationalise murder? (Most people would say no, because they should show some self control)


Just out of curiosity, when did you leave? :smile:
Reply 338
Original post by champ_mc99
Just out of curiosity, when did you leave? :smile:


Hard to say, there was ever increasing doubts then not practicing then being done with it. Around last summer was when I was done with it.
Original post by champ_mc99
Lol you always need to break up and address every little phrase. :tongue:


It makes conversations easier to follow. :tongue:

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