Eu: In or out?
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Original post by klosovic
I'd like to be able to vote for who's in charge so I want to leave the EU.
...and move to Witney?
We should certainly stay in. Everyone simplifies this too much, in reality we have no idea what a Brexit would do for the UK. That uncertainty in itself will be a catalyst for an economic downturn, as it will decrease demand as consumers themselves put off "big ticket" purchases as they fear such assets would depreciate. Moreover, the point of "oh, immigrant steal our jobs" is ridiculous. What's to stop UK companies from outsourcing to other countries with cheaper labour? One way or another, those who lack skills are going to find it hard to get jobs. Vote IN.
Same! mostly due to hosuing prices; They predict if the house market keeps rising, you will have to earn £100,000 a year in order to afford a BASIC house/flat! I mean thats ridiculous! In order to own my own propety i will have to wait for my parents to die! im sorry but its the harsh reality.
Original post by gmahapatra
We should certainly stay in. Everyone simplifies this too much, in reality we have no idea what a Brexit would do for the UK. That uncertainty in itself will be a catalyst for an economic downturn, as it will decrease demand as consumers themselves put off "big ticket" purchases as they fear such assets would depreciate. Moreover, the point of "oh, immigrant steal our jobs" is ridiculous. What's to stop UK companies from outsourcing to other countries with cheaper labour? One way or another, those who lack skills are going to find it hard to get jobs. Vote IN.
YES!!!! WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'LL HAPPEN IF WE CAN MAKE OUR DECISIONS!!!!
only RACISTS want brexit!
Original post by nulli tertius
...and move to Witney?
Lol, I still chuckle when I think about my sweet and innocent looking Nan who lived there talking about seeing "that Tory bastard" at the supermarket.
YESS!!!!! SO TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
the tories will literally TAKE ALL OUR RIGHTS AWAY!!!!!!! AND THEN THEY'LL STILL GET ELECTED!!!!!
WE NEED THE UNELECTED COMMISSION TO KEEP US SAFE!!!!!! (hopefully they don't do things we dont like lol but we take risks right?)
independence is SO 1846!!!! DEMOCRACY IS LITERALLY ANCIENT GREEKS YOU BACKWARDSS BIGOTS!!!
the tories will literally TAKE ALL OUR RIGHTS AWAY!!!!!!! AND THEN THEY'LL STILL GET ELECTED!!!!!
WE NEED THE UNELECTED COMMISSION TO KEEP US SAFE!!!!!! (hopefully they don't do things we dont like lol but we take risks right?)
independence is SO 1846!!!! DEMOCRACY IS LITERALLY ANCIENT GREEKS YOU BACKWARDSS BIGOTS!!!
Original post by string210
Apparently according to paper's i've read recently it suggests alot of students are going to vote in, and the majority of brexiters are middle aged to pensioners.
I'm personally a brexiter but apparently i'm in the minority. Also if we did vote to leave, who would be prime minister , david cameron or someone else?
So doing a few straw poll's because i'm interested so see if that's true.
I'm personally a brexiter but apparently i'm in the minority. Also if we did vote to leave, who would be prime minister , david cameron or someone else?
So doing a few straw poll's because i'm interested so see if that's true.
Shake it all about!
Sorry that's literally the first thought I have when I see "in or out" aside from a more inappropriate nuance haha but seriously I'm voting in but I respect your choice.
Original post by Brusselsknowbest
YESS!!!!! SO TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
the tories will literally TAKE ALL OUR RIGHTS AWAY!!!!!!! AND THEN THEY'LL STILL GET ELECTED!!!!!
WE NEED THE UNELECTED COMMISSION TO KEEP US SAFE!!!!!! (hopefully they don't do things we dont like lol but we take risks right?)
independence is SO 1846!!!! DEMOCRACY IS LITERALLY ANCIENT GREEKS YOU BACKWARDSS BIGOTS!!!
the tories will literally TAKE ALL OUR RIGHTS AWAY!!!!!!! AND THEN THEY'LL STILL GET ELECTED!!!!!
WE NEED THE UNELECTED COMMISSION TO KEEP US SAFE!!!!!! (hopefully they don't do things we dont like lol but we take risks right?)
independence is SO 1846!!!! DEMOCRACY IS LITERALLY ANCIENT GREEKS YOU BACKWARDSS BIGOTS!!!
you sound like an idiot.
the EU is pure protectionism, borderlessness and authoritarianism - I am baffled as to how anybody can really see the value in this unreformable disaster. the EU has no merit whatsoever - it is going to damage us economically particularly - literally; the EU simply protects failing corporations and stops better/cheapper imports, so we as EU citizens have to pay more than otherwise, all for the sake of the greedy clientele/interests of farmers, foreign fishers, manufacturers etc who hate foreign competition. if the WTO wasn't here we'd be a sunken ship by now. we're currently a sinking ship compared with the BRIC countries.
(edited 7 years ago)
what workers' rights are you even talking about? :| how is it about workers' rights when workers are less likely o find a job or get laid off via cheap workers from eastern europe? how is it about the workers when the corporations of europe (not just business but agriculture/fisheries) stop foreign competition, making consumers (whom are also workers) pay more for their goods?
also, you do realise the tories won't be in power forever, right? :| have some patience - you and everybody else can vote them out eventually. surely you can have *some* respect for democracy? why vote or more authoritarianism from overseas just because you're so selfish politically to deny people their electoral decision? if people want the tories, why do you think it's fair to vote for the EU to deny he party that this party itself voted for? that's appalling
also, you do realise the tories won't be in power forever, right? :| have some patience - you and everybody else can vote them out eventually. surely you can have *some* respect for democracy? why vote or more authoritarianism from overseas just because you're so selfish politically to deny people their electoral decision? if people want the tories, why do you think it's fair to vote for the EU to deny he party that this party itself voted for? that's appalling
(edited 7 years ago)
democracy is about the people deciding our laws in the sense that the people are rational and responsible enough to ultimately do it. if you don't think we should have a genuine democracy then that implies that everybody, including you, is too too stupid for it or to make an intelligent argument at all. so why should we listen to your opinion here, pleb?
Original post by Jade.andrews2
Same! mostly due to hosuing prices; They predict if the house market keeps rising, you will have to earn £100,000 a year in order to afford a BASIC house/flat! I mean thats ridiculous! In order to own my own propety i will have to wait for my parents to die! im sorry but its the harsh reality.
Housing prices are rising up too quickly IMO. A couple of months ago, I would've been able to buy a decent house an hour away from London. Now, I have to move 90 minutes away for the same house.
Honestly, if I don't act fast, I'll be joining the daily commuters from Manchester and Liverpool to London which is 2-3 hours one way.
Stay in
If we vote out, we will lose a lot of language teachers, my French teacher said if we leave the EU, he's going immediately because he doesn't want to apply for a work visa. If the UK doesn't want him there, then he'll just leave and he knows others who think the same.
If we vote out, we will lose a lot of language teachers, my French teacher said if we leave the EU, he's going immediately because he doesn't want to apply for a work visa. If the UK doesn't want him there, then he'll just leave and he knows others who think the same.
Original post by string210
Apparently according to paper's i've read recently it suggests alot of students are going to vote in, and the majority of brexiters are middle aged to pensioners.
I'm personally a brexiter but apparently i'm in the minority. Also if we did vote to leave, who would be prime minister , david cameron or someone else?
So doing a few straw poll's because i'm interested so see if that's true.
I'm personally a brexiter but apparently i'm in the minority. Also if we did vote to leave, who would be prime minister , david cameron or someone else?
So doing a few straw poll's because i'm interested so see if that's true.
David Cameron will still be PM until next elections
Original post by sleepysnooze
what workers' rights are you even talking about? :| how is it about workers' rights when workers are less likely o find a job or get laid off via cheap workers from eastern europe? how is it about the workers when the corporations of europe (not just business but agriculture/fisheries) stop foreign competition, making consumers (whom are also workers) pay more for their goods?
also, you do realise the tories won't be in power forever, right? :| have some patience - you and everybody else can vote them out eventually. surely you can have *some* respect for democracy? why vote or more authoritarianism from overseas just because you're so selfish politically to deny people their electoral decision? if people want the tories, why do you think it's fair to vote for the EU to deny he party that this party itself voted for? that's appalling
also, you do realise the tories won't be in power forever, right? :| have some patience - you and everybody else can vote them out eventually. surely you can have *some* respect for democracy? why vote or more authoritarianism from overseas just because you're so selfish politically to deny people their electoral decision? if people want the tories, why do you think it's fair to vote for the EU to deny he party that this party itself voted for? that's appalling
How about the working time directive? This directive guarantees that every worker has at least 4 weeks of paid holidays a year. Or how about the Pregnant workers and parental leave directives that guarantee leave for looking after children. And the various health and safety and pensions directives that stop employers from endangering lives of their employees.
If we left the EU then the Tories or whoever is in power would be allowed to change these at will, and while yes we could then vote them out our democracy isn't entirely fair or democratic (just look at last years election) the tories have a majority government but have less than 40% of the vote, if they wanted to remain in power they could bend the electoral rules to give them an edge (redraw boundaries, change spending limits etc.). On top of that the EU is fairly democratic when you look into the two ruling bodies. Too quickly summarise both bodies: the eu parliament is directly elected and each country being assigned a number of seats proportional to the population of each country. The commission isn't as democratic it is made up of the leaders of each country (David Cameron for the UK Francois Hollande for France etc) but the commission doesn't get to pass laws it can only suggest laws whereas the directly elected parliament passes laws.
Quick note the parliament also gets to veto the president of the commission. And sorry for the poor punctuation in advance.
Original post by Pmh1
How about the working time directive? This directive guarantees that every worker has at least 4 weeks of paid holidays a year. Or how about the Pregnant workers and parental leave directives that guarantee leave for looking after children.
We had that in the 1930s, ****ing Chamberlain passed it and as far as I recall he wasn't some sort of time travelling EU member.
The EU hasn't given us anything we didn't already have because Britain was a world leader in workers rights, the poor european states were far more behind on the matter.
I will be voting out.
French can't live without our cheese.
Germany cannot live with out our car purchases from them.
Do you think that we will die when we leave? Nope we will probably be better off.
French can't live without our cheese.
Germany cannot live with out our car purchases from them.
Do you think that we will die when we leave? Nope we will probably be better off.
Original post by EuanF
We had that in the 1930s, ****ing Chamberlain passed it and as far as I recall he wasn't some sort of time travelling EU member.
The EU hasn't given us anything we didn't already have because Britain was a world leader in workers rights, the poor european states were far more behind on the matter.
The EU hasn't given us anything we didn't already have because Britain was a world leader in workers rights, the poor european states were far more behind on the matter.
Not to mention that if it were solely the EU protecting these rights we would have the bare minimum required, instead we have nearly 50pc more holiday entitlement and IIRC nearly 4 times the paternity requirement.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm in for mostly Historical reasons. I feel no desire to go and fight on the European continent like so many of my ancestors.
A quick-fire history lesson if you will:
The EU started as the ECSC (The European Coal and Steel Committee) after WW2. The aim was to limit the production and movement of war supplies, which at the time was mostly coal and steel. Great Britain was notably absent for much of the creation and early days of the EU. We refused to join when offered, and then when we wanted to join the 'wonderful' Charles De Gaulle kept refusing our requests to join. We were essentially that not-cool schoolboy that had been asked out by the hot chick, and now regretted saying 'no' but were being doorstopped by the popular Jock. After-all De Gaulle was seen as a war hero.
Anyways the EU changed without our influence and turned into something which was far less agreeable than it's initial form, however we joined regardless because frankly our economy was
hemorrhaging and we had no other choice. Perhaps if we had been a member sooner we would have had more control.
I for one would like to stay in the EU as although i feel there are many things wrong with it (and there are MANY things wrong with it, lots of IN campaigners should not be so dismissive of 'out' campaigners as right-wingers as most of them aren't.). However if we leave the EU we may set of a dangerous precedent, which if the Eurozone doesn't recover soon we may see other countries leave. Now before i get accused of using 'scare-tactics' the chances of a whole-scale breakup of the EU is unlikely, however with every country that leaves its irrefutable that the EU would lose influence, very important influence.
One example of that influence being put to good use would be Russia. In my opinion we have been distrustful of Russia and outright xenophobic towards them at times, now we could just sit here and let them develop hypersonic nuclear weapons (so fast that even the most well-developed missile-defence systems have no chance of shooting them down) and build our missile shield and pretend that we're safe or we can invite Russia closer to the fold, even with someone like Putin at the helm.
Obviously there are deep-seated issues and problems with my idea, that i wont go into in this post unless someone takes an interest and replies, otherwise i might be accused of murder by boring some of you to death with this post.
Sorry for it's length, i hope some of you found it interesting, and like i said i respect both INers and OUTers alike.
Best regards
Francis.
A quick-fire history lesson if you will:
The EU started as the ECSC (The European Coal and Steel Committee) after WW2. The aim was to limit the production and movement of war supplies, which at the time was mostly coal and steel. Great Britain was notably absent for much of the creation and early days of the EU. We refused to join when offered, and then when we wanted to join the 'wonderful' Charles De Gaulle kept refusing our requests to join. We were essentially that not-cool schoolboy that had been asked out by the hot chick, and now regretted saying 'no' but were being doorstopped by the popular Jock. After-all De Gaulle was seen as a war hero.
Anyways the EU changed without our influence and turned into something which was far less agreeable than it's initial form, however we joined regardless because frankly our economy was
hemorrhaging and we had no other choice. Perhaps if we had been a member sooner we would have had more control.
I for one would like to stay in the EU as although i feel there are many things wrong with it (and there are MANY things wrong with it, lots of IN campaigners should not be so dismissive of 'out' campaigners as right-wingers as most of them aren't.). However if we leave the EU we may set of a dangerous precedent, which if the Eurozone doesn't recover soon we may see other countries leave. Now before i get accused of using 'scare-tactics' the chances of a whole-scale breakup of the EU is unlikely, however with every country that leaves its irrefutable that the EU would lose influence, very important influence.
One example of that influence being put to good use would be Russia. In my opinion we have been distrustful of Russia and outright xenophobic towards them at times, now we could just sit here and let them develop hypersonic nuclear weapons (so fast that even the most well-developed missile-defence systems have no chance of shooting them down) and build our missile shield and pretend that we're safe or we can invite Russia closer to the fold, even with someone like Putin at the helm.
Obviously there are deep-seated issues and problems with my idea, that i wont go into in this post unless someone takes an interest and replies, otherwise i might be accused of murder by boring some of you to death with this post.
Sorry for it's length, i hope some of you found it interesting, and like i said i respect both INers and OUTers alike.
Best regards
Francis.
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