EU - why leave?

The EU membership is extortionate. We're already in enough debt - leave the EU = save a lot of money.

Gaining independence would mean we have more control over our country EG, with immigration. It's becoming a concern and impacting our welfare state. Our Drs are only getting more stressed and waiting lists are only getting longer.

Norway is an independent country with a higher standard of living and they're doing just fine with trade, business and immigration etc.


The change would be good for the country.
There's a 2y 'notice period' before anything will actually happen, and every British Citizen currently living in EU countries are entitled to vote and will obviously vote to stay in.

I just don't understand why people would like to leave? The amount of funding that we recieve back is incredible, they pretty much support our farmers!

Furthermore, with recent immigration figures of net +330,000, I think UKIPs stand of millions of people arriving every year has been...well..

Also, they are all for good reasons, they bring so many positives! And little negatives! They mostly are economic migrants, they WANT to work..and they do the jobs that Brits don't generally want...

France also said that if we leave the EU they will open the borders at Calais. I wouldn't say we control the borders too well, specifically how France does most of the work for us.

I don't have a question particularly, I just don't understand how people want to leave. The argument of British Independence is full of ****, we are not an empire anymore, we never will be again, we need the EU.

The EU membership is extortionate. We're already in enough debt - leave the EU = save a lot of money.

Gaining independence would mean we have more control over our country EG, with immigration. It's becoming a concern and impacting our welfare state. Our Drs are only getting more stressed and waiting lists are only getting longer.

Norway is an independent country with a higher standard of living and they're doing just fine with trade, business and immigration etc.


The change would be good for the country.
There's a 2y 'notice period' before anything will actually happen, and every British Citizen currently living in EU countries are entitled to vote and will obviously vote to stay in.

The cost of the EU isn't that big. There was a rare independent report the other week that said the economy would only have to strink by something like 0.6% in order to wipe out any savings by leaving the EU.

That said though I believe farmers are split as to whether the EU is a good thing, subsidy or not and I am with you on the immigration issue although we could cut immigration by 150,000 a year over night by stopping immigration from outside the EU.... but we don't for some reason - maybe it is more complicated than we thought?

As for the Norway argument. I am getting rather bored of comparing the UK (population 65 millionish, debt £1.56 trillionish) with Norway (population 5 millionish, sovereign wealth fund $873 billionish)

The EU membership is extortionate. We're already in enough debt - leave the EU = save a lot of money.

Gaining independence would mean we have more control over our country EG, with immigration. It's becoming a concern and impacting our welfare state. Our Drs are only getting more stressed and waiting lists are only getting longer.

Norway is an independent country with a higher standard of living and they're doing just fine with trade, business and immigration etc.


The change would be good for the country.
There's a 2y 'notice period' before anything will actually happen, and every British Citizen currently living in EU countries are entitled to vote and will obviously vote to stay in.

According to a economist and financial advisor, it would takes us 14 years to cover the national debt cost if we leave the EU. If we stay in the EU the debt will only increase. He left the QT remain panel speechless.

Is it really? We hand over a net £8,000,000,000 a year to EU.



Enough to build a new hospital a week.

On Question Time a economist and financial advisor calculated the amount the UK would get over 14 years. He got a whopping £15 trillion - which covers the National debt.

[video="youtube;vqdg7pcgIOY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqdg7pcgIOY[/video]





From what I know the UKIP wants a tougher stand on the entrance UNSKILLED immigrants which is likely to be the bigger part of that figure you stated.

Have you got a source on the claim that UKIP believes millions will arrive? Are you sure that's not the EU and not just the UK?



They've brought a wave of sexual assault with them, several terrorists and many, many unskilled workers seeking asylum and benefits.

I'm sure some are good and some want work, but economic migrants means they want money - money to bring back to their families. Most of these economic "migrants" are MEN and they do not intend to stay, they intend to get the money and **** off with it - taxpayer's money. If they truly wanted to work, why are they crossing countries like Austria and Hungary to Germany, Sweden and the UK?!










So what if they do? We have a natural border with France (the Channel)... we've got some of the best intelligence and best coast guards in the world and the migrants would still have to pass our border control to enter the UK. France is trying to scare us and it's failing miserably.





No, it's not "full of ****" and has nothing to do with an "Empire" and we ertainly don't need the EU - in fact, the EU needs us.

The EU knows that if we leave other countries will want to follow.

You clearly have done next to no research into this.

I just don't understand why people would like to leave? The amount of funding that we recieve back is incredible, they pretty much support our farmers!

Furthermore, with recent immigration figures of net +330,000, I think UKIPs stand of millions of people arriving every year has been...well..

Also, they are all for good reasons, they bring so many positives! And little negatives! They mostly are economic migrants, they WANT to work..and they do the jobs that Brits don't generally want...

France also said that if we leave the EU they will open the borders at Calais. I wouldn't say we control the borders too well, specifically how France does most of the work for us.

I don't have a question particularly, I just don't understand how people want to leave. The argument of British Independence is full of ****, we are not an empire anymore, we never will be again, we need the EU.

Norway does not need the EU, as a counter-example

I don't understand why Brexiters love using Norway as an example.

They have to accept free movement of people, they often have to adapt their laws to keep in line with EU regulation and they don't get to directly influence any EU decision-making. They get control over fishing and agriculture but these sectors employ a greater proportion of people in Norway than in the UK.

The Swiss are not in the EU

You're being ridiculous. If you think that the money is going to be used for anything useful. They claim that a large proportion is going to be spent on the NHS, the NHS needs a better structure not necessarily more money thrown at it. We are have a conservative government. What's the likelihood that they will actually use the money for the people, but instead to lower the 'debt' - and it is highly unlikely that they will either.

The claim about the migrants is in their 'EU- In or Out' leaflet, it was given to me in the street, I read it and threw it away, but I am sure in any major city you could find it.

Also for the amount of migrants to the amount of sexual assaults that have been observed, the ratio is minimal. You cannot blame all of the migrants due to what a few have done. That's like blaming the population of Norway for the work of Anders Behring Breivik, or claiming that all of the USA are part of the KKK, since a small proportion of them are.

Moreover, the Economist claimed that the migrants contributed £5-6 billion to our economy. Plus, the Huffington Post claimed that actually on 10% of migrants actually benefit from our welfare system.


I'm just going to leave you with this quote from the 2016 EU economic report...

'It shows that Britain’sEU membership has boosted its trade in goods with other memberstatesby 55 per cent. In 2013, Britain’s goods trade with the EU was£364 billion, so this ‘EU effect’ amounted to around £130 billion.' - A little bit more than our subscription fee, eh?

To say that I have no researched is a polite way for you to say - 'I don't accept anyone else's opinion'.

And you got that figure where exactly?

We're not making more than we're paying, don't be absurd.

I don't understand why Brexiters love using Norway as an example.

They have to accept free movement of people, they often have to adapt their laws to keep in line with EU regulation and they don't get to directly influence any EU decision-making. They get control over fishing and agriculture but these sectors employ a greater proportion of people in Norway than in the UK.

You can't compare the UK to Norway, a country that has only 5 million people, and an abundance of natural resources. So, obviously they will have a higher standard of living.

The welfare state is indeed a problem - Maybe it should be scrapped?

I'm voting remain, but there are some key issues with Europe and valid points leave have that need to be addressed.

Ultimately you can't have monetary union split from monetary policy and that is where a lot of the current issues are coming from. While there are some high level agreed aspects such as VAT, realistically Eurozone countries can do whatever they want with their money which may damage other countries who share the Euro. Likewise if they get into trouble, they lack the authority to use many options we have available to us, such as printing more money - as doing so would damage other countries.

This is essentially why Greece is such a big issue - not helped by knee-jerk austerity measures being inflicted with each loan.

Ultimately there is only two ways to solve this - dissolve the joint currency and go back to individual currencies, or end up having joint monetary decisions at a higher level, with some control at a country level. I.e. the United Nations of Europe.

Given the UK doesn't have the Euro, we are somewhat protected from this, but I think it's relatively accurate to say that Europe is only going one of two ways - moving towards a UNE or moving towards failure. The latter scenario is a danger, but we are somewhat protected and I don't personally see the reason to jump ship now.

The much more divisive issue is how we feel about a UNE. Personally, I would be relatively okay with this, however many people have serious concerns about it destroying the British identity and other issues.

Note I say all this as an amateur with nothing more than a basic understanding of economics, so it is likely hugely oversimplified.

The Leave campaign would have a better time focusing solely on the UNE rather than moaning about membership fees or immigration in my opinion, but then, perhaps they'd be setting the bar too high and people wouldn't understand it.

Immigration is what's winning it for the leave campaign ATM, and to those is Brussels if there is a problem in Europe the solution is simple: more Europe. The recent "renegotiation" suggests that actually our protection from the euro isn't necessarily as strong as we think. Treaty change is a thing of the past now, or at least formal treaty change, now the treaties are changed whenever they get in the way by the commission.

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