The Student Room Group

Overhaul the educational system

I have been thinking recently about how useless the educational system failed me and i still failing kids to day it seem clear to me that it needs some quite significant changes.

1/ We should abolish RS as a required subject (I mean I didn't have to do it as a exam but still had it until 16) by all means have it as a GCSE but don't ram it down our throat .

2/ Modern Languages why why why should I have to do one of these (for GCSE it was law when i did GCSE's many years ago) if I'm going to another country I'll learn the language but the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless maybe we should actually be taught how to converse inn the language rather than all the grammar rubbish.

3/ First Aid should be required with a unit on metal illness and how to recognise/handle it maybe in place of Modern languages.

4/ Holding kids back I think the threat of this really would make kids work hard and leave school with the tools they need to succeed not being taught to the test like they are today.

5/ Vocational courses subjects like science should be assessed in a lab maybe doing an experiment of for mechanics maybe fixing a car what have you where the write up of finished product is the exam.

6/ Maths should be split in to maths and numeracy because they are separate and lumping the together turns kids off maths which is an interesting subject.

7/ Get rid of the streaming system kids being to ld oh yeah this is bottom set or this is top set can cause them to either lose hope or feel too much pressure which can lead to behavroual problems down the line just like the middle sets can sometimes just coast not to mention exams should be the same for everyone so everyone has the chance get a good grade nothing is more demoralising than being told at 15 none of you can get above a D thats it the top grade on the paper your doing .

so yeah what do you chaps think how would you change it also watch the video it's pretty thought provoking[video="youtube;8xe6nLVXEC0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xe6nLVXEC0[/video]

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Original post by jonathanemptage
I have been thinking recently about how useless the educational system failed me and i still failing kids to day it seem clear to me that it needs some quite significant changes.

1/ We should abolish RS as a required subject (I mean I didn't have to do it as a exam but still had it until 16) by all means have it as a GCSE but don't ram it down our throat .

2/ Modern Languages why why why should I have to do one of these (for GCSE it was law when i did GCSE's many years ago) if I'm going to another country I'll learn the language but the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless maybe we should actually be taught how to converse inn the language rather than all the grammar rubbish.

3/ First Aid should be required with a unit on metal illness and how to recognise/handle it maybe in place of Modern languages.

4/ Holding kids back I think the threat of this really would make kids work hard and leave school with the tools they need to succeed not being taught to the test like they are today.

5/ Vocational courses subjects like science should be assessed in a lab maybe doing an experiment of for mechanics maybe fixing a car what have you where the write up of finished product is the exam.

6/ Maths should be split in to maths and numeracy because they are separate and lumping the together turns kids off maths which is an interesting subject.

7/ Get rid of the streaming system kids being to ld oh yeah this is bottom set or this is top set can cause them to either lose hope or feel too much pressure which can lead to behavroual problems down the line just like the middle sets can sometimes just coast not to mention exams should be the same for everyone so everyone has the chance get a good grade nothing is more demoralising than being told at 15 none of you can get above a D thats it the top grade on the paper your doing .

so yeah what do you chaps think how would you change it also watch the video it's pretty thought provoking[video="youtube;8xe6nLVXEC0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xe6nLVXEC0[/video]


Just a few thoughts:

1. I believe that there are issues with the way RS is taught, but think that there is a need for young people to be culturally aware and sensitive to different religions, with society becoming more multicultural. For these reasons I do believe it should be compulsory, but should be less dry and more varied. IMO this could be better delivered as part of PSHCE lessons.

2. Languages were never compulsory when I was at school, but I agree that the curriculum is not quite right at the minute. The most spoken languages in the world are Chinese and Spanish yet most schools teach French and German. Languages definitely need to be more practical to get kids excited about them and to give them valuable knowledge that is actually useful to them in the real world. Integration with other subjects would be great too e.g. Chinese related to business studies, but will probably never happen.

3. 100% agree with this, every young person should have a basic life support certificate by the time they leave school, unfortunately at the minute it's only the ones who search this out for themselves. There is a huge need for mental health awareness and improved tolerance, again this should be delivered through PSHCE.

4. For this to work there would need to be a huge overhaul of the standardised testing we have at the minute and hugely increased vocational options for those who aren't as academic. Currently I feel that these students are forced to struggle through school and only really reach their potential when they can choose a more vocational career or college course. While these kids still need basic maths and English skills, there should be a more practical course for those who struggle with the academic side of things.

5. As far as I'm aware most product design, art and tech courses are assessed in this sort of way, even more so at college. I feel there is still a need for some sort of paper exam for science subjects as it would be difficult to demonstrate full knowledge through experiments, which would also put a huge strain on time and resources. I can't see the current method of exam and practical sessions changing.

6. I actually agree with this, GCSE maths forces kids to learn a lot of skills which are essentially irrelevant to most jobs. On the other hand, I've found GCSE statistics to be really useful as there are clear practical applications, and it has actually really helped me. Maybe there is a need for some sort of basic numeracy certificate which is accepted by employers in place of GCSE maths for less mathematical careers.

7. This is a huge problem for all the reasons you've specified. Finding a solution would require increased teaching resources and training teachers to deliver lessons that can fairly challenge students of all capabilities, while not leaving any to fall behind. I know a lot of people who were put into sets and according to that were not allowed to sit the higher papers and were therefore capped at a C for GCSE, and therefore lost motivation to push for more, even though they were perfectly capable of working hard and achieving better grades. It also causes a lot of segregation issues and behavioural problems, not to mention being completely demoralising to be placed in the bottom set.

Kids should be encouraged and enabled to succeed and I don't feel that our current education system is achieving that.
I have to say, I disagree with the 5th point in regards to sciences - I would fail my science AS Levels if I had to do it practical based - I already had to do some required practicals which I did badly in - I think there needs to be a choice because frankly, I suck at the vocational and practical side of things. I'm much better at exams and I know a lot of people are - it just depends on each person


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Original post by nomophobia
I would fail my science AS Levels if I had to do it practical based - I already had to do some required practicals which I did badly in - I think there needs to be a choice because frankly, I suck at the vocational and practical side of things.


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See that right there is why point 5 is important science is practical an without the practical skills you will ever be a scientist.If you don't have the skills your grade is moot so it needs to be assesed
Original post by jonathanemptage
2/ Modern Languages why why why should I have to do one of these (for GCSE it was law when i did GCSE's many years ago) if I'm going to another country I'll learn the language but the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless maybe we should actually be taught how to converse inn the language rather than all the grammar rubbish.


Prepare for my bias as a prospective languages student. They shouldn't be abolished under any circumstances, but there definitely needs to be some reform. I'll outline some points/ideas and offer my opinions next to them.

Modern languages should still be compulsory up until the end of GCSE - However it shouldn't be neccessary to sit an exam in them; students should be split into classes based on who is sitting the exam and who isn't. Making them compulsory reinforces the idea that languages are important in the modern world and in these classes we should aim to teach the language in an effective manner. You mention "all that grammar rubbish", but you need to know the grammar in order to know how to converse... You can't learn a language without learning the grammar behind it and you can't learn the grammar behind it without learning the language.

Where possible, students should be given a choice of the language they want to study - In my high school I was randomly placed into a German class and luckily I really liked it and am going to university to study it, however I know plenty of people who didn't like German at all, as well as people doing other languages who would have rather been doing German. If everyone gets a choice then at least people will be a little bit more motivated from the beginning. I know this could have an adverse effect on class sizes (e.g. nobody might choose a language) but that's unlikely to happen - could always implement a 'no preference' option.

Stop going on about how 'hard' languages are - Yeah, they're difficult, but once you get the foundation in any language it's super easy to build up. For some reason there seems to be a huge misconception that languages are one of the most difficult subjects to study, and I guess in some ways they are, but they really aren't. Especially considering how you can pass a GCSE language exam with knowing barely any of the language. At the same time, stop going on about how "everyone speaks English". Yeah, English is the current lingua franca of the internet and the world in general, but step foot outside the UK and you will quickly find that not everyone speaks English at all. I've been travelling all over Europe and it honestly, really isn't that case. A lot of people do speak English, but nowhere near as many as you'd think, and of those, even fewer speak it well.

Introduce lessons on culture - These lessons were what made A level MFL so much better than GCSE. It gives you an insight to the culture behind the language as well as breaking up the monotonous grammar drills that are neccessary.

Place more emphasis on just how important languages are and where you can go with them - You say that you'd just learn the language if you go to a new country.... Well, would you really? Look at all the retired expats in Spain, almost none of whom speak even a lick of Spanish and live in their little expat bubbles. Being in a foreign country and learning through immersion is the best way to learn a language, but if you go through your whole life thinking that MFLs aren't important you'll never absorb that knowledge. The second best way is through lessons, so schools should be providing this foundation in languages to help move on. Arguably those who don't see a use for their language will never speak it again once they leave school, but providing everyone with a decent, worthwhile foundation will allow more people to progess further once they leave school, whether they actually want to study the language or just learn it passively in their own time. If we remain in the EU (which hopefully we will), knowing other languages will make it easier to move abroad. Alright we've got the freedom of movement currently within the EU, but if we have knowledge of say, French, then all of the jobs in France are now open to us too (okay you don't need to know French for every job, but you will need basic French for the majority and it would make day-to-day life in France easier too). If you don't speak another language, all those doors are closed off to you because you just think, what's the point.

Change the languages offered - Not really sure how to implement it since there's only a limited number of teachers/schools/classes, but in an ideal world it would be good to limit the languages offered to one from each main family, this makes it easier to move on to other languages within that family (e.g learning German opens you up to Dutch (which opens up to Afrikaans), Luxembourgish, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish - and more distantly Icelandic and Faroese etc.). So I'd try and offer French for the Romance languages, German for the Germanic, Polish/Russian for the Slavic, as well as Arabic and Mandarin Chinese, I could go on forever. But I realise this is difficult to organise so it's probably a moot point.

Edit: I can come up with more reasons if you want me to go on.... These were just the first ones on the top of my head.
(edited 7 years ago)
Basically what you are saying is that you recognise current system is completely messed up because some ******** with zero teaching experience thought he knew best and gave everything a complete overhaul. And you think the solution to this is to completely overhaul the education system because you, with your presumably zero experience teaching, think you know best?

Genius, how could it possibly fail?
Reply 6
Original post by jonathanemptage
I have been thinking recently about how useless the educational system failed me and i still failing kids to day it seem clear to me that it needs some quite significant changes.

1/ We should abolish RS as a required subject (I mean I didn't have to do it as a exam but still had it until 16) by all means have it as a GCSE but don't ram it down our throat .

2/ Modern Languages why why why should I have to do one of these (for GCSE it was law when i did GCSE's many years ago) if I'm going to another country I'll learn the language but the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless maybe we should actually be taught how to converse inn the language rather than all the grammar rubbish.

3/ First Aid should be required with a unit on metal illness and how to recognise/handle it maybe in place of Modern languages.

4/ Holding kids back I think the threat of this really would make kids work hard and leave school with the tools they need to succeed not being taught to the test like they are today.

5/ Vocational courses subjects like science should be assessed in a lab maybe doing an experiment of for mechanics maybe fixing a car what have you where the write up of finished product is the exam.

6/ Maths should be split in to maths and numeracy because they are separate and lumping the together turns kids off maths which is an interesting subject.

7/ Get rid of the streaming system kids being to ld oh yeah this is bottom set or this is top set can cause them to either lose hope or feel too much pressure which can lead to behavroual problems down the line just like the middle sets can sometimes just coast not to mention exams should be the same for everyone so everyone has the chance get a good grade nothing is more demoralising than being told at 15 none of you can get above a D thats it the top grade on the paper your doing .

so yeah what do you chaps think how would you change it also watch the video it's pretty thought provoking[video="youtube;8xe6nLVXEC0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xe6nLVXEC0[/video]


I will put your name for education secretary
Original post by jonathanemptage
See that right there is why point 5 is important science is practical an without the practical skills you will ever be a scientist.If you don't have the skills your grade is moot so it needs to be assesed


Uhhhh, maybe you should think twice before saying that my grade is moot - it does not need to be assessed because practical skills are not properly taught in college - literally, if a teacher says "instructions are on the board off you go, you're not allowed to work in pairs by the way" how the f*** do you expect me to do well first time round? If I ever become a scientist, practical skills would be properly taught.

And also, I cannot believe you think sciences are practical, they're mostly theoretical, and I am much better with the theoretical side of things - I really much prefer learning info and applying as opposed to having to do practicals on my own

Posted from TSR Mobile
Wjec has offered a gcse in numeracy since last year, it's seems more work applicable in some cases.
Original post by jonathanemptage
I have been thinking recently about how useless the educational system failed me and i still failing kids to day it seem clear to me that it needs some quite significant changes.

1/ We should abolish RS as a required subject (I mean I didn't have to do it as a exam but still had it until 16) by all means have it as a GCSE but don't ram it down our throat .

2/ Modern Languages why why why should I have to do one of these (for GCSE it was law when i did GCSE's many years ago) if I'm going to another country I'll learn the language but the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless maybe we should actually be taught how to converse inn the language rather than all the grammar rubbish.

3/ First Aid should be required with a unit on metal illness and how to recognise/handle it maybe in place of Modern languages.

4/ Holding kids back I think the threat of this really would make kids work hard and leave school with the tools they need to succeed not being taught to the test like they are today.

5/ Vocational courses subjects like science should be assessed in a lab maybe doing an experiment of for mechanics maybe fixing a car what have you where the write up of finished product is the exam.

6/ Maths should be split in to maths and numeracy because they are separate and lumping the together turns kids off maths which is an interesting subject.

7/ Get rid of the streaming system kids being to ld oh yeah this is bottom set or this is top set can cause them to either lose hope or feel too much pressure which can lead to behavroual problems down the line just like the middle sets can sometimes just coast not to mention exams should be the same for everyone so everyone has the chance get a good grade nothing is more demoralising than being told at 15 none of you can get above a D thats it the top grade on the paper your doing .

so yeah what do you chaps think how would you change it also watch the video it's pretty thought provoking[video="youtube;8xe6nLVXEC0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xe6nLVXEC0[/video]


I personally think Computing should be made compulsory considering how much of our day to day life now relies on computers
Original post by nomophobia
Uhhhh, maybe you should think twice before saying that my grade is moot - it does not need to be assessed because practical skills are not properly taught in college - literally, if a teacher says "instructions are on the board off you go, you're not allowed to work in pairs by the way" how the f*** do you expect me to do well first time round? If I ever become a scientist, practical skills would be properly taught.

And also, I cannot believe you think sciences are practical, they're mostly theoretical, and I am much better with the theoretical side of things - I really much prefer learning info and applying as opposed to having to do practicals on my own

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I think you'll find in the real world most advances are made with experiments (granted coming from a theory) I work in a scientific environment and while my co workers are scientists they do an awful lot of experiments so those skills are important and you'll be expected to get on with it in uni


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by jonathanemptage
I have been thinking recently about how useless the educational system failed me and i still failing kids to day it seem clear to me that it needs some quite significant changes.

1/ We should abolish RS as a required subject (I mean I didn't have to do it as a exam but still had it until 16) by all means have it as a GCSE but don't ram it down our throat .

2/ Modern Languages why why why should I have to do one of these (for GCSE it was law when i did GCSE's many years ago) if I'm going to another country I'll learn the language but the stuff we learn in school is pretty useless maybe we should actually be taught how to converse inn the language rather than all the grammar rubbish.

3/ First Aid should be required with a unit on metal illness and how to recognise/handle it maybe in place of Modern languages.

4/ Holding kids back I think the threat of this really would make kids work hard and leave school with the tools they need to succeed not being taught to the test like they are today.

5/ Vocational courses subjects like science should be assessed in a lab maybe doing an experiment of for mechanics maybe fixing a car what have you where the write up of finished product is the exam.

6/ Maths should be split in to maths and numeracy because they are separate and lumping the together turns kids off maths which is an interesting subject.

7/ Get rid of the streaming system kids being to ld oh yeah this is bottom set or this is top set can cause them to either lose hope or feel too much pressure which can lead to behavroual problems down the line just like the middle sets can sometimes just coast not to mention exams should be the same for everyone so everyone has the chance get a good grade nothing is more demoralising than being told at 15 none of you can get above a D thats it the top grade on the paper your doing .



Disagree with all your points, except 4 where I think keeping people back a year would be good practice if they didnt progress.

Education system does fail a high % of less gited pupils who get left behind and measures need to be taken to address that situation. We have some of the worst literacy and numeracy rates in the world for school leavers.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by jonathanemptage
I think you'll find in the real world most advances are made with experiments (granted coming from a theory) I work in a scientific environment and while my co workers are scientists they do an awful lot of experiments so those skills are important and you'll be expected to get on with it in uni


Posted from TSR Mobile


In general performing experiments is easy provided you've a modest level of hand eye coordination. I mean, it's about on par with cooking.

Designing experiments, understanding the results and understanding (possibly even creating) the theory behind the experiments is the difficult part.

Also, I'm not sure what science you did, but experiments were a mandatory part of all three sciences when I did my GCSEs and I was graded for those experiments. Experiments were also included in A level, but I don't believe I was graded on them.
Original post by jonathanemptage
See that right there is why point 5 is important science is practical an without the practical skills you will ever be a scientist.If you don't have the skills your grade is moot so it needs to be assesed


This isn't true. Most of science really isn't practical. Critical thinking and an understanding of the scientific method are more important than practical skills. We don't need everyone in the country to have good lab skills, but we need everyone in the country to be able to evaluate evidence, have enough knowledge to make informed decisions on issues like climate change, and understand what reliable science means.

The problems with our education in this country go deeper than just what we teach. It boggles my mind just how many people will vehemently disagree with a consensus of experts and decades of empirical evidence. People aren't taught how to think properly, they aren't capable of identifying when they don't know enough to form an opinion.

Our education system needs to be reformed so that we teach people how to think and inform themselves. Michael Gove's reforms did the exact opposite, probably because the Tories have vested interests in keeping people stupid.
Original post by Elivercury
In general performing experiments is easy provided you've a modest level of hand eye coordination. I mean, it's about on par with cooking.

Designing experiments, understanding the results and understanding (possibly even creating) the theory behind the experiments is the difficult part.

Also, I'm not sure what science you did, but experiments were a mandatory part of all three sciences when I did my GCSEs and I was graded for those experiments. Experiments were also included in A level, but I don't believe I was graded on them.


They were for me too but what I'm saying is have more of them and use those as the final exam as well if people can't understand the theory properly the experiment (that they will have to design of course, so tell them what they'll be testing first and then the experiment will be done at a later date after the plans are handed in.) will fail marks for the write up planning and execution more applicable to the real world.
Original post by 999tigger
Disagree with all your points, except 4 where I think keeping people back a year would be good practice if they didnt progress.

Education system does fail a high % of less gited pupils who get left behind and measures need to be taken to address that situation. We have some of the worst literacy and numeracy rates in the world for school leavers.


Whats wrong with point 3?
Original post by jonathanemptage
7/ Get rid of the streaming system kids being to ld oh yeah this is bottom set or this is top set can cause them to either lose hope or feel too much pressure which can lead to behavroual problems down the line just like the middle sets can sometimes just coast not to mention exams should be the same for everyone so everyone has the chance get a good grade nothing is more demoralising than being told at 15 none of you can get above a D thats it the top grade on the paper your doing .


No. The bottom kids slow the top ones down. It is honestly the most infuriating thing in the world, being really fascinated by something and not having the opportunity to go further with it and stretch yourself. It kills curiosity.
Original post by StrangeBanana
No. The bottom kids slow the top ones down. It is honestly the most infuriating thing in the world, being really fascinated by something and not having the opportunity to go further with it and stretch yourself. It kills curiosity.


This is completely true, but mixing ability groups improves performance of the bottom kids. There's no optimal solution.

Maybe we should have mixed ability groups, but give extra lessons to higher-performing kids, and allow others to opt-in. That seems like it'd work for everyone.
Original post by jonathanemptage
They were for me too but what I'm saying is have more of them and use those as the final exam as well if people can't understand the theory properly the experiment (that they will have to design of course, so tell them what they'll be testing first and then the experiment will be done at a later date after the plans are handed in.) will fail marks for the write up planning and execution more applicable to the real world.


See, but you cite the "real world" like it is a single entity rather than a spectrum. For people going on to university and working at high levels of scientific/engineering ability the theory is probably the most essential part. Applying it is what comes later after you've learnt it.

I could definitely see the value in making the lower papers more practical based though, as these skills would almost certainly serve pupils better.

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