Why do leave voters keep saying the EU is undemocratic?

...Every constituency gets an MP.

And we get MEPs, a seat (and veto) on the European Council plus opt outs and rebates.

No one's saying it isn't undemocratic, but democracy is overrated.

I trust some people in Brussels

, who are out of the media spotlight, who aren't forced to bow to political pressure or media pressure to appease their supporters, to make laws rather than a labour or tory government. The EU laws have helped raise Europe-wide standards, and there isn't a single law that has been passed which is genuinely threatening, but we have this constant threat of 'changing human rights' by the tories over here, I don't know much about it to the core, but you get the point. The tories wanted to force all schools to become academies, and they're taxing higher on sugar - both for no particular reason other than to milk a bit of extra money somewhere down the line. Not to mention the life-damaging policies like raising tuition fees.

I think it can be argued on some occasions that the EU gives us more democracy and more rights by preventing our own government from making absurd laws - which I don't think wouldn't be expected of our current government.

And you mentioned it yourself, the House of Lords, the royal family... unelected.

Criticism of those seemingly possible counter-arguments...
1) Royal Assent has a track record of just being a formality.
2) The House of Lords can only delay non-finance-related legislation for up to a year. The House of Lords is a revision chamber, and the UK has more pressing concerns about its quite democratic system.

But so what? 'Undemocratic' is the new 'racism' or the new 'marxism' - words that people like you throw out into the crowd and everyone shies away from like its cancer. The truth is, it doesn't matter and its the least important issue on the table. What's more important is the economic implications a Brexit will have on us, farmers, fishermen, etc will lose out from the EU, our economy will shrink, we will have less influence on the world stage, we will be forced to accept EU-Britain trade deals without having control over them. The motto is "vote leave, take control" but the reality is we lose control if we leave, we step into the unknown with some vague hopes that we are able to adopt a Canada or Denmark style deal, well those things are explicitly far from ideal. We have people complaining about immigration, leaving the EU doesn't put the brakes on immigration, it just concentrates it to non-Eu immigrants.

It is no wonder that the only four prominent buffoons who support a Brexit are the three tory rebels and Farage, three of whom likely don't even care about whether or not we leave and just want more tory power.

2a-d The Commission is like the cabinet. The UK cabinet is not voted in. It is chosen. Well, obviously, the commisioner must act in the best interests of Europe. That would be like complaining, the Health Minister cannot build an extra hospital in his borough.

How does 10% of the vote share amount to very little? We have a hell of a lot more power in the EU than we have in deciding our own MPs.



So true. Our elected government is systematically selling and destroying this country, while the EU has consistently introduced progressive, evidence-based legislation that benefits all of us. If the democratic government is going to tear the country apart for profit, while the undemocratic government is going to represent my interests fairly and make decisions that need to be made, of course I'd rather be ruled by the undemocratic government.

Is the ratio of constituents to MP close in to that of constituents to MEP?

Is the ratio of constituents to MP close in to that of constituents to MEP?

also "veto" lmao

It's unrealistic and unnecessary to have thousands of MEP's

1a) The UK only has 73 MEPs.
1b) There are altogether 751 MEPs.
1c) The UK only has 9.72% of the voting power. (73 / 751 x 100)
1d) The UK population constitutes 12.74% of the EU population.

Precisely, the democracy is too large and at that scale you can't have a functioning, representative democracy ergo we must leave and return to a reasonably sized one.

It's size fulfills it's purpose in conjunction with national parliaments. The fact they're elected by PR arguably makes them more representative of the electorate, the issue in the UK is low participation in European elections.

The Indians manage democracy with a population of 1 billion+.

i cant believe you used india as an example of a functioning democracy

"Indeed, of the more than four-dozen officially recognized political parties currently operating in India, only three – the right-wing nationalist BJP and two far-left parties, Communist Party of India (CPI) and Communist Party of India-Marxist (CPI-M) – are not controlled by dynastic rulers or dominated by one charismatic leader."

Well.....yes........I don't really see how that makes the EU Parliament undemocratic.

Yes...in the same way, the Health minister works in the favour of the UK. It doesn't make any sense to make the Commission working in national interests.

It doesn't change that allowing Bishops, rich donors and etc to vote on legislation is profoundly undemocratic, let alone change legislation.

Why should we have more representation than we already do? Why should we have more representation than other larger EU economies?

You can make the same argument that the UK is undemocratic based on the number of eligible voters per constituency. Inevitably there will always be some disparity to make sure everyone gets a voice. Based on this the Isle of Wight are getting screwed and should secede from the mainland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_Parliament_constituencies

Even If we had 12.74% of the seats I personally think some Eurosceptics would still be complaining.

2a) MEPs can't repeal or amend legislation.
2b) MEPs can't propose legislation; MEPs don't have the right to legislative initiative.

Hahahaha wooow failed at the first hurdle. 751 - 73 = 724

That means the rest of the EU has 724% of the total voting power whilst the UK has just 0.081%. How is that democratic mate?

VOTE LEAVE

My point was that the size of the electorate is irrelevant.

Brexit Maths

Hahahaha wooow failed at the first hurdle. 751 - 73 = 724

That means the rest of the EU has 724% of the total voting power whilst the UK has just 0.081%. How is that democratic mate?

VOTE LEAVE

1a) The UK only has 73 MEPs.
1b) There are altogether 751 MEPs.
1c) The UK only has 9.72% of the voting power. (73 / 751 x 100)
1d) The UK population constitutes 12.74% of the EU population.