QTLS vs QTS- Career Prospects
-What is the difference between a QTS and QTLS?
-Will someone with QTS be looked at more favourably for a secondary teaching position than someone with QTLS?
-Is the government likely to change the laws again on QTLS?
I want to be able to teach across secondary and a level/btec with a PGCE Post Compulsary Sector- QTLS qualification, is this really feasible or do I really need to be doing a traditional PGCE?
Thanks
-Will someone with QTS be looked at more favourably for a secondary teaching position than someone with QTLS?
-Is the government likely to change the laws again on QTLS?
I want to be able to teach across secondary and a level/btec with a PGCE Post Compulsary Sector- QTLS qualification, is this really feasible or do I really need to be doing a traditional PGCE?
Thanks
Scroll to see replies
You'd honestly probably be better off asking somewhere like TES where there are many experienced teachers that actually hire people, rather than a student website. Ultimately what matters is whether people will hire you and you need to ask people who do hiring about that.
EDIT: Found this: https://community.tes.com/threads/qtls.739816/
EDIT: Found this: https://community.tes.com/threads/qtls.739816/
(edited 7 years ago)
Would a teaching employer look more highly upon a person with PGCE in the secondary sector for business studies than someone who gained the qualification teaching Alevel and Btec in the further education sector?
Original post by Teachhelpme123
Would a teaching employer look more highly upon a person with PGCE in the secondary sector for business studies than someone who gained the qualification teaching Alevel and Btec in the further education sector?
Well yes, I imagine it's pretty obvious they would. You have:
Candidate A: Experience teaching 14-18 year olds
Candidate B: Experience teaching 16-18 year olds
If the job is for teaching 14-18 year olds it's just common sense that Candidate A has superior and more relevant experience.
Now of course depending on how in demand/rare the subject is there may be no Candidate A, so Candidate B will do absolutely fine (e.g. Physics and Maths), but I've no idea how in demand business studies is.
Likewise it isn't to say that Candidate B couldn't outshine Candidate A at interview, but they're definitely on the backfoot.
So I would be qualified to teach in a secondary school with nothing stopping me and no further qualifications required. My experience would not be in the secondary education, however, business is taught over gcse/alevel/btec so the age difference isnt a huge differentiator. Decisions, decisions......
Original post by Teachhelpme123
So I would be qualified to teach in a secondary school with nothing stopping me and no further qualifications required. My experience would not be in the secondary education, however, business is taught over gcse/alevel/btec so the age difference isnt a huge differentiator. Decisions, decisions......
Well you wouldn't be. As I understand it QTLS doesn't qualify you to teach secondary, only FE. I was going on the basis that you achieved QTS (required for secondary) and were going for jobs at that point. You of course will not be considered for jobs you don't meet the requirements for.
Getting QTS does not require any additional qualifications from what I understand but would require you to demonstrate sufficient competencies from your QTLS qualification. How difficult this would be I have no idea. That is my understanding from reading TES, googling and the link I posted above.
Also in terms of age difference it is really quite large. 14-16 year olds are forced to be there and do not necessarily want to be. 16-18 year olds have volunteered to attend classes and have a higher interest in succeeding. I would imagine behaviour management to be significantly different between the two, to say nothing of the class sizes.
I am just someone who has applied for a PGCE though and would highly recommend you seek advice from someone in a stronger position of knowledge than I (such as those on the TES forum).
QTLS is apparently legally equivalent to a QTS and allows you to teach in secondary school. It allows you legally to teach within secondary schools on the same pay scale and shouldn't be discriminated against- according to the website.
However, as you say, the age difference and experience of not working in a secondary school will likely play a big factor in career opportunities.....Also you have to complete it after your 2 year course and have to try and get teaching hours in the further education sector to support you through your QTLS accreditation....which may prove difficult.
Are you funding your PGCE course through loans etc, ? this was one of my reasons for applying for the course. It is salaried and pay's your fees.
However, as you say, the age difference and experience of not working in a secondary school will likely play a big factor in career opportunities.....Also you have to complete it after your 2 year course and have to try and get teaching hours in the further education sector to support you through your QTLS accreditation....which may prove difficult.
Are you funding your PGCE course through loans etc, ? this was one of my reasons for applying for the course. It is salaried and pay's your fees.
Original post by Teachhelpme123
QTLS is apparently legally equivalent to a QTS and allows you to teach in secondary school. It allows you legally to teach within secondary schools on the same pay scale and shouldn't be discriminated against- according to the website.
However, as you say, the age difference and experience of not working in a secondary school will likely play a big factor in career opportunities.....Also you have to complete it after your 2 year course and have to try and get teaching hours in the further education sector to support you through your QTLS accreditation....which may prove difficult.
Are you funding your PGCE course through loans etc, ? this was one of my reasons for applying for the course. It is salaried and pay's your fees.
However, as you say, the age difference and experience of not working in a secondary school will likely play a big factor in career opportunities.....Also you have to complete it after your 2 year course and have to try and get teaching hours in the further education sector to support you through your QTLS accreditation....which may prove difficult.
Are you funding your PGCE course through loans etc, ? this was one of my reasons for applying for the course. It is salaried and pay's your fees.
I had more options than you as I'm applying for physics. I was originally planning to move to England and get a 25k bursary (I looked at salaried, but it was like £21-23k paying tax, so 25k tax free is much better!).
In the end I decided to stay in Scotland, because it doesn't require moving. There are no tuition costs, but also no bursaries. Regarding living costs, I plan to just be a kept man for a year and let my wife look after me. It'll be a little tight but we'll see how it goes. I do have access to a student loan (up to 5k?) but see no reason to go into debt if I can avoid it.
If QTLS allows you to teach in secondary schools then I imagine it'll purely be down to competitiveness tbh. On the bright side, you'd likely have a leg up when applying to colleges (if that interested you).
I wish we all got reduced tuition fees the same as Scotland 
my decision would be 100% easier: straight PGCE.....and free prescriptions 
!
My alternative option is 10k debt, maintenance loan of 8k on top of my already hefty student finance..............which is why my salaried and tuition fees paid is so attractive.
There are many different opinions on the TES website about the QTLS qualification and I am not convinced it is 100% suitable for secondary...... Really though this is my only financial feasible option into teaching, very frustrating!!
worse David Cameron talking about Brexit and quoting that he is trying to get more people into university, it has never been less achievable.
my decision would be 100% easier: straight PGCE.....and free prescriptions ! My alternative option is 10k debt, maintenance loan of 8k on top of my already hefty student finance..............which is why my salaried and tuition fees paid is so attractive.
There are many different opinions on the TES website about the QTLS qualification and I am not convinced it is 100% suitable for secondary...... Really though this is my only financial feasible option into teaching, very frustrating!!
worse David Cameron talking about Brexit and quoting that he is trying to get more people into university, it has never been less achievable.
Original post by Teachhelpme123
I wish we all got reduced tuition fees the same as Scotland my decision would be 100% easier: straight PGCE.....and free prescriptions !
My alternative option is 10k debt, maintenance loan of 8k on top of my already hefty student finance..............which is why my salaried and tuition fees paid is so attractive.
There are many different opinions on the TES website about the QTLS qualification and I am not convinced it is 100% suitable for secondary...... Really though this is my only financial feasible option into teaching, very frustrating!!
worse David Cameron talking about Brexit and quoting that he is trying to get more people into university, it has never been less achievable.
my decision would be 100% easier: straight PGCE.....and free prescriptions ! My alternative option is 10k debt, maintenance loan of 8k on top of my already hefty student finance..............which is why my salaried and tuition fees paid is so attractive.
There are many different opinions on the TES website about the QTLS qualification and I am not convinced it is 100% suitable for secondary...... Really though this is my only financial feasible option into teaching, very frustrating!!
worse David Cameron talking about Brexit and quoting that he is trying to get more people into university, it has never been less achievable.
Brexit isn't happening for a couple of years regardless of what happens in a few weeks, so I wouldn't worry about it.
Have you tried speaking to get into teaching? They might be able to give some advice. Alternatively, be at the top of the applications for next year when they open in a month's time and get a one year salaried option. Depends if you can survive your current job for another year! I know the feeling.
Yes I have spoke to them, they said oh you're eligible for a 30K bursary! then bam!!! ooppss sorry wrong subject haha nothing for you I'm afraid.
The salaried option would be the only option for me if it was even possible (from my research even the salaried option isn't feasible).
haha yes the desire to escape to something different and more interesting!!
The salaried option would be the only option for me if it was even possible (from my research even the salaried option isn't feasible).
haha yes the desire to escape to something different and more interesting!!
There is so much conflicting information on this dilemma and there has been for years.
My understanding of it is that qts is more versatile but if you are happy to specifically teach in fe then qtls is a good way forward.
My understanding of it is that qts is more versatile but if you are happy to specifically teach in fe then qtls is a good way forward.
Original post by Elivercury
I had more options than you as I'm applying for physics. I was originally planning to move to England and get a 25k bursary (I looked at salaried, but it was like £21-23k paying tax, so 25k tax free is much better!).
In the end I decided to stay in Scotland, because it doesn't require moving. There are no tuition costs, but also no bursaries. Regarding living costs, I plan to just be a kept man for a year and let my wife look after me. It'll be a little tight but we'll see how it goes. I do have access to a student loan (up to 5k?) but see no reason to go into debt if I can avoid it.
If QTLS allows you to teach in secondary schools then I imagine it'll purely be down to competitiveness tbh. On the bright side, you'd likely have a leg up when applying to colleges (if that interested you).
In the end I decided to stay in Scotland, because it doesn't require moving. There are no tuition costs, but also no bursaries. Regarding living costs, I plan to just be a kept man for a year and let my wife look after me. It'll be a little tight but we'll see how it goes. I do have access to a student loan (up to 5k?) but see no reason to go into debt if I can avoid it.
If QTLS allows you to teach in secondary schools then I imagine it'll purely be down to competitiveness tbh. On the bright side, you'd likely have a leg up when applying to colleges (if that interested you).
How to finance a QTLS I HAVE A A-level mathematic in French baccalauréat scientifique
I have been accepted onto a PGCE with a bursary ( generous ). I had the same dilemma as you. Long term, I want to teach at Further Education, maybe even study further doctorate and teach at a Uni etc......however, I would like to teach in colleges maybe part time. I consulted a qualified FE Tutor ( she teaches at a College) and she explained that she qualified via the traditional school route / PGCE and QTS.Firstly, the government are encouraging QTLS - but this does not qualify you to teach in secondary schools in the UK.Secondly, the Tutor I consulted advised me that is is easier to move from schools - to FE Sector, than the other way around.After the discussion with a qualified FE Tutor, she encouraged me to consider all the benefits of PGCE/QTS over the FE route.1. PGCE - IS AN INTERNATIONALLY recognised qualification, recognised all over the world - as it is intensive and rigorous. You can go and teach in Australia etc etc ... no problem, well accepted and recognised. 2. Generous TAX FREE bursary - in many subjects to do the PGCE3. Qualify in a school and you can pretty much work in any sector ( providing you have right subject level...is masters/ Phd for University.......easier transition from school to FE Sector. 4. Difficult to go from FE Sector to teach in secondary school- QTLS is considered differently in the secondary secondary compared to PGCE
Original post by Topteach77
I have been accepted onto a PGCE with a bursary ( generous ). I had the same dilemma as you. Long term, I want to teach at Further Education, maybe even study further doctorate and teach at a Uni etc......however, I would like to teach in colleges maybe part time. I consulted a qualified FE Tutor ( she teaches at a College) and she explained that she qualified via the traditional school route / PGCE and QTS.Firstly, the government are encouraging QTLS - but this does not qualify you to teach in secondary schools in the UK.Secondly, the Tutor I consulted advised me that is is easier to move from schools - to FE Sector, than the other way around.After the discussion with a qualified FE Tutor, she encouraged me to consider all the benefits of PGCE/QTS over the FE route.1. PGCE - IS AN INTERNATIONALLY recognised qualification, recognised all over the world - as it is intensive and rigorous. You can go and teach in Australia etc etc ... no problem, well accepted and recognised. 2. Generous TAX FREE bursary - in many subjects to do the PGCE3. Qualify in a school and you can pretty much work in any sector ( providing you have right subject level...is masters/ Phd for University.......easier transition from school to FE Sector. 4. Difficult to go from FE Sector to teach in secondary school- QTLS is considered differently in the secondary secondary compared to PGCE
Original post by Topteach77
I have been accepted onto a PGCE with a bursary ( generous ). I had the same dilemma as you. Long term, I want to teach at Further Education, maybe even study further doctorate and teach at a Uni etc......however, I would like to teach in colleges maybe part time. I consulted a qualified FE Tutor ( she teaches at a College) and she explained that she qualified via the traditional school route / PGCE and QTS.Firstly, the government are encouraging QTLS - but this does not qualify you to teach in secondary schools in the UK.Secondly, the Tutor I consulted advised me that is is easier to move from schools - to FE Sector, than the other way around.After the discussion with a qualified FE Tutor, she encouraged me to consider all the benefits of PGCE/QTS over the FE route.1. PGCE - IS AN INTERNATIONALLY recognised qualification, recognised all over the world - as it is intensive and rigorous. You can go and teach in Australia etc etc ... no problem, well accepted and recognised. 2. Generous TAX FREE bursary - in many subjects to do the PGCE3. Qualify in a school and you can pretty much work in any sector ( providing you have right subject level...is masters/ Phd for University.......easier transition from school to FE Sector. 4. Difficult to go from FE Sector to teach in secondary school- QTLS is considered differently in the secondary secondary compared to PGCE
This is all just factually incorrect and you are talking as if there isn't a PGCE for FE?
Original post by Topteach77
I have been accepted onto a PGCE with a bursary ( generous ). I had the same dilemma as you. Long term, I want to teach at Further Education, maybe even study further doctorate and teach at a Uni etc......however, I would like to teach in colleges maybe part time. I consulted a qualified FE Tutor ( she teaches at a College) and she explained that she qualified via the traditional school route / PGCE and QTS.Firstly, the government are encouraging QTLS - but this does not qualify you to teach in secondary schools in the UK.Secondly, the Tutor I consulted advised me that is is easier to move from schools - to FE Sector, than the other way around.After the discussion with a qualified FE Tutor, she encouraged me to consider all the benefits of PGCE/QTS over the FE route.1. PGCE - IS AN INTERNATIONALLY recognised qualification, recognised all over the world - as it is intensive and rigorous. You can go and teach in Australia etc etc ... no problem, well accepted and recognised. 2. Generous TAX FREE bursary - in many subjects to do the PGCE3. Qualify in a school and you can pretty much work in any sector ( providing you have right subject level...is masters/ Phd for University.......easier transition from school to FE Sector. 4. Difficult to go from FE Sector to teach in secondary school- QTLS is considered differently in the secondary secondary compared to PGCE
You can't gain QTLS without already having a qualification such as PGCE/PGDE. What are you even talking about!?!? It IS legally equivalent and you are even able to teach in primary schools with it!! You should perhaps educate yourself first before training to be a teacher.
QTLS is recognised to be 'teacher status'. However, you will not have been through an NQT year, which QTS candidates are required to do and you will not receive a teacher reference number. Most job applications require you to state whether or not you have QTS and to state your reference number. You will not be able to claim you have QTS when you actually have QTLS as they are still different things.
If you want to be a teacher in secondary, my advice would be to go for QTS.
If you want to be a teacher in secondary, my advice would be to go for QTS.
I have worked in both state-maintained primary, and secondary schools with QTLS and they were accepted and recognised as equal to QTS. Also, application forms ask for a teacher reference numbers, or SET numbers. I have a SET number which has always been accepted with no questions asked. Previously they were different, however now that they are legally equal, schools cannot choose to discriminate on the basis that someone may not have undergone an NQT year. As a former FE teacher, I personally have a Masters Degree and years of teaching experience across all sectors, thruogh agency work initially. I'm sure my experience far outweighs an NQT with QTS. Often FE teachers are educated to a much higher level than primary or secondary teachers, so they have a huge amount of subject knowledge in their favour. If I was employing, I know who I'd choose. (Original post by bwilliams)
QTLS is recognised to be 'teacher status'. However, you will not have been through an NQT year, which QTS candidates are required to do and you will not receive a teacher reference number. Most job applications require you to state whether or not you have QTS and to state your reference number. You will not be able to claim you have QTS when you actually have QTLS as they are still different things.
If you want to be a teacher in secondary, my advice would be to go for QTS.
If you want to be a teacher in secondary, my advice would be to go for QTS.
(edited 5 years ago)
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