Breaking news: 9 shot in terrorist attack in Tel Aviv

Original post by Hendrix Lives

Have a nice day.

http://www.blakkpepper.com/2016/03/50000-ultra-orthodox-jews-protest-israels-plan-of-recruiting-its-young-boys-for-army-in-manhattan/

So, let's see what is true in your original post.

Original post by Hendrix Lives

50 thousand Israelis marched in New York in April and prayed for peace,will he listen?

First, it was in march. And not this year, but two years ago.
Second, they were not Israelis, but American ultra-Orthodox Jews.
Third, they didn't pray for peace, as you said. They protested "over Israeli army plan to draft devoutly religious men".
Well, the rest is true.. :cool:

Reply 82

Original post by Gswp

Last time Israel launched an air strike on Gaza killing civilians they justified it as 'Targeting Hamas'.

It wasn't just the justification, targeting Hamas was the basis of the campaign; an attempt to stop the thousands of rockets Hamas started launching into Israel.

Are you claiming they weren't targeting Hamas?

Reply 83

Original post by 0to100

I honestly wish the Middle East as a whole (Israel, Palestine, Afghanistan, whoever) would just get swallowed up into the ground and disappear in hot lava. The mess that goes on there is just revolting, I want to puke thinking about the stupidness those people fight over.

Personally I don't want Israel to be swallowed up into the ground.

Primarily because Israel is the only country in the Middle East where an Arab woman can walk out into the street in t-shirt and shorts, holding her lesbian partner's hand, and stroll down to the polling booth to vote for the political candidate of her choice.

If one cares about the rights of Arab women, surely we should try to preserve the one country in the middle east where those rights are respected?

Reply 84

Original post by sweeneyrod

Why are you linking to some ******** anti-semitic conspiracy theories? It takes about 3 seconds of looking at that site for any sensible person to realise it is a load of rubbish -- scrolling down the homepage there is something about the "New World Order" and some sort of 9/11 conspiracy theory. Do you plan to follow it up with a link to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

Although I don't really want to dignify that link with a proper response, I feel I should point out that only about a third of Israeli Jews are religious, and Israel's founder David Ben-Gurion identified as a pantheist.

Well said. I've made this point before but I'll make it again; Israel is the only country in the Middle East where an Arab woman can walk out into the street in t-shirt and shorts, holding her lesbian partner's hand, and stroll down to the polling booth to vote for a political candidate of her choice.

And of course, as you alluded to, Israel's founding was by people who were basically atheist socialists. Nothing to do with some kind of messianic religious belief

Reply 85

Original post by admonit

So, let's see what is true in your original post.

First, it was in march. And not this year, but two years ago.
Second, they were not Israelis, but American ultra-Orthodox Jews.
Third, they didn't pray for peace, as you said. They protested "over Israeli army plan to draft devoutly religious men".
Well, the rest is true.. :cool:

I always find it interesting that anti-Zionists associate themselves with religious extremists like the Naturei Karta who are basically the Jewish equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church.

These far right ultra Orthodox Jews are "anti-Zionist" because they hate Israel's secular character (and thus refuse to serve in its armyt, despite being very happy to collect welfare cheques and have ten kids). It speaks volumes about the anti-Zionists that they link up with these crackpots (and it's because they know they have to find some way, any way, to defuse their obvious problem with anti-semitism; i.e. "look, some Jews also hate Israel").

But I suppose many anti-Zionists are on the same page there; they hate secularism and reason, and adhere to crackpot religious extremism, both the ultra-Orthodox and the Hamas types.

Reply 86

sweeneyrod

Original post by Thutmose-III

And of course, as you alluded to, Israel's founding was by people who were basically atheist socialists. Nothing to do with some kind of messianic religious belief

I don't think it's quite that simple. Early Israelis were a diverse bunch. Some were very left-wing and secular, but equally there were many who were extremely right-wing (racist against Arabs) and secular, those who were very religious, and those who were Italian-style fascists.

Reply 87

I've just realised I've landed on a forum that has nothing but raving ZIONIST loving nutcases,why on earth didn't I notice it before I started posting.
Kill the King,the man sent from God to save your own souls and you betrayed him,Jesus died for you and you are too blind to see it,hate will always be in your hearts because it's all you have,you hate all religions because they treat you like a leper,is it any wonder you're despised.

https://youtu.be/rB6e96KywTk

Reply 88

Original post by Hendrix Lives

And these are actually the same ultra-Orthodox Jews, two drunk teenagers.
Well, today definitely is not your day.. :cool:

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 89

Every day I breathe is my day.

Reply 90

sweeneyrod

Original post by Hendrix Lives

What do you think about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? At first, I thought you were just a somewhat misguided person who'd stumbled across some dubious articles about the Talmud online, but I'm starting to think you are either a troll, or deeply anti-semitic.

Reply 91

Tbh,it may well have been real,then again maybe not.
What's your opinion might I ask?
You think I'm anti semitic,well what I cannot understand is that Israel was basically saved by American and British intervention,many more may have died outwith the 6 million that already perished,now you treat other nations and religions as heretic,why?
As you may know,many people are boycotting Israeli goods,is it any wonder?
There's an old saying,'What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his own soul.'
What does it profit ISRAEL to gain the whole of Palestine?

Reply 92

Original post by sweeneyrod

Some were very left-wing and secular, but equally there were many who were extremely right-wing and secular

Like who? Can you name a single Israeli cabinet minister prior to the late 1970s who was right-wing?

those who were very religious

There were religious Jews in Israel, that's right. But they had little power and were a small proportion of the population. Israel had continuous socialist governments from the late 1940s until the late 1970s.

and those who were Italian-style fascists.

Oh really? Which parties? This should be interesting.

Reply 93

Original post by Hendrix Lives

TIsrael was basically saved by American and British intervention

Israel was saved by Israeli soldiers only.

As you may know,many people are boycotting Israeli goods,is it any wonder?

"Yet an examination of foreign capital flow into the country shows the opposite trend -- a steep increase. Foreign investments in Israeli assets hit a record high last year of $285.12 billion, a near-tripling from 2005 when the so-called Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement was started by a group of Palestinians."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-02/israel-boycott-is-failing-when-measured-by-main-economic-gauge

There's an old saying,'What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his own soul.'

This "old saying " is a quote from the Bible.You can safely direct it to those Palestinians who celebrated the killings.
"After the attack, fireworks were set off in parts of the West Bank and in some refugee camps people sang, chanted and waved flags in celebration, locals said."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-shooting-idUSKCN0YU2F1

Reply 94

sweeneyrod

Original post by Thutmose-III

Like who? Can you name a single Israeli cabinet minister prior to the late 1970s who was right-wing?

I agree that the Israeli government was mainly left-wing until the rise of Likud, but that doesn't mean the right wasn't influential in the foundation of Israel, only that they weren't influential in its early government. In answer to your question, Menachem Begin was a minister in the 1966 government, and I wouldn't exactly call him a socialist.

Original post by Thutmose-III

I agree that the government was relatively left-wing until 1977, but the left-wing coalition usually included a religious party up until that point.

Original post by Thutmose-III

Oh really? Which parties? This should be interesting.

Factions of the revisionist Zionism movement, e.g. Brit HaBirionim.

Reply 95

KimKallstrom

Original post by sweeneyrod

Fun fact -- Lebanon has killed more Palestinians than Israel.

Yeah but why let facts get in the way of blaming all your failings on Jews like Arabs have been doing for a millennium?

Reply 96

FluuidKarma

Original post by Thutmose-III

That's almost a non-sequiter. Is it a justification for the actions of these terrorists?

As for Israel valuing human lives, even Hamas admits they do. Hamas said during the 2014 conflict that their tactic of "baring their chests at the F-16s" (i.e. having dozens of civilians crowd around the houses of Hamas commanders) was successful in deterring Israeli attacks.

Are you aware of Israel's "knock on the roof" tactic? Are you aware that Israel routinely dropped leaflets, and contacted Palestinians by automated phone and text messages to warn them of incoming airstrikes., but that they were often prevented from fleeing by the Hamas curfew?

It's quite clear Israel does value human life. The fact they allow 30,000 Palestinians from Gaza to come into Israel proper for medical treatment in hospitals, despite the fact this privilege has been repeatedly abused to carry out terror attacks, is demonstrative of their attitude. The fact Israel has provided substantial amounts of aid to Gaza even when the conflict was at its height and knowing that much of it would be siphoned by Hamas to sell at inflated prices, they continued to send it in.

Your comment is somewhat disappointing as you are usually an insightful and intelligent commenter on these forums

The IDF values human life?
Is that why the Israeli High Court (not Hamas, the Israeli High court) found the Israeli Defence Force guilty of using Palestinians as human shields over 1200 times (over 500 of which involved minors) in 2005?
The Israeli High Court has countless cases where they have stated the IDF has failed to value the life of Palestinians and has found them in gross violation of international law.

IDF and Hamas are both terrible organisations which countlessly commit atrocities and have little regard for human life; both groups have been criticised by the Palestinian Authority AND the Israeli High Court.

Stop falling for this ********; the IDF commits atrocities and it is undeniable - stop blaming Hamas for every child killed by an Israeli soldier.
Yes Hamas are **** but they're not an excuse for the IDF's extraordinary collateral damage rate; most Israelis acknowledge this, why don't you?
Palestinians are ultimately second class citizens; they have no vote in elections, there is a significant limitation in freedom of movement.

I agree that Palestine gets too much coverage in contrast to other occupied territories where land has been stolen and millions have been displaced such as Northern Cyprus and Kashmir, however the acts of the IDF are just not justifiable.

Israel may be okay, but the IDF is certainly not.

Reply 97

Original post by admonit

Israel was saved by Israeli soldiers only.

"Yet an examination of foreign capital flow into the country shows the opposite trend -- a steep increase. Foreign investments in Israeli assets hit a record high last year of $285.12 billion, a near-tripling from 2005 when the so-called Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement was started by a group of Palestinians."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-02/israel-boycott-is-failing-when-measured-by-main-economic-gauge

This "old saying " is a quote from the Bible.You can safely direct it to those Palestinians who celebrated the killings.
"After the attack, fireworks were set off in parts of the West Bank and in some refugee camps people sang, chanted and waved flags in celebration, locals said."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-shooting-idUSKCN0YU2F1

I've come to the conclusion that you're a complete and utter raving lunatic.
I always put folk like you on ignore,as ignorant is something I dislike.
Ignored.

Reply 98