OCR GCSE Classical Greek
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Original post by Martins1
Zeus, having noticed the old man and pitying him, sent Hermes to lead him.
I originally put that but seeing as there was no word to him I changed it to 'having noticed and pitying the old man', do you think that's okay?!
Oh, it was 'sent Hermes to LEAD him'! I had no idea what that word was, thought it was from γίγνομαι, but 'sent Hermes to occur him' makes no sense, so I put 'help' even though I KNEW that's βοηθάω.
For the derivatives I put gynaecology and politics, but I couldn't think of the precise meaning of politics, so :/
For the derivatives I put gynaecology and politics, but I couldn't think of the precise meaning of politics, so :/
Original post by fuzz13
I originally put that but seeing as there was no word to him I changed it to 'having noticed and pitying the old man', do you think that's okay?!
Yeah should be fine - I asume the him was understood as it didnt make too much sense otherwise.
Original post by Nelliebelly
Oh, it was 'sent Hermes to LEAD him'! I had no idea what that word was, thought it was from γίγνομαι, but 'sent Hermes to occur him' makes no sense, so I put 'help' even though I KNEW that's βοηθάω.
For the derivatives I put gynaecology and politics, but I couldn't think of the precise meaning of politics, so :/
For the derivatives I put gynaecology and politics, but I couldn't think of the precise meaning of politics, so :/
Uh yes, I think the verb was agagovoi or something of the sort - optative of to lead (ago)
Original post by Martins1
Yeah should be fine - I asume the him was understood as it didnt make too much sense otherwise.
Uh yes, I think the verb was agagovoi or something of the sort - optative of to lead (ago)
Uh yes, I think the verb was agagovoi or something of the sort - optative of to lead (ago)
Bloody optative.
Original post by Nelliebelly
Bloody optative.
Haha, yep. Honestly I can't remember the form, so I can't say it is for sure.
Do you do paper 2? Optatives are sure to come up then.
I made a mark scheme, but its not quite right - please help find the missing questions/inaccuracies.
Thought I'd make a mark scheme for the paper-but i have forgotten parts of it, so you will have to remind me
Section A
1)
Q- For how long did the Trojans and Greeks fight? [1]
A- 10 years
2)
Q- How was Achilles described? [2]
A- The bravest/ of the Greeks.
3)
Q- Describe in detail the terrible deed which Achilles did? [4]
A- Having fastened the corpse/ to the chariot, he dragged it/ around the walls of the city.
4)
Q- Who was Priam? Give two details. [2]
A- He was the King of Troy/ and the father of Hector
5)
Q– What did Priam want to do and why? [4] (or 3, not sure?)
A – He wanted to ask/ for the body of his son/ so that he could bury it/ according to custom.
6)
Q– What did Priam bring with him? [3]
A– He brought gold/ and other/ gifts.
7)
Q - How did Priam's wife fell about this plan? [2] (or maybe one... cannot remember!)
A - She was afraid of the danger
8)
Q– Which Greek word describes how he went there? Translate it into English. [2]
A – lathrai /in secret or secretly
Total: 20 marks.
Section B– Translation [20]
I can only remember bits:
/Priam was coming to the camp of Achilles by night in silence. The path was long and difficult./
Zeus, having noticed the old man and pitying him, sent Hermes to lead him./ Therefore the messenger of the gods immediately appeared,/ diguised as a young man from the camp of Achilles. /On the one hand, he was amazed, on the other hand the god told him not to be afraid./
Section C
1)
Q – When did Hermes disappear? [1]
A – When they reached/ the camp of Achilles.
2)
Q – Therefore what did Priam do? (Can’t remember the exact q…) [2]
A – He went in/ alone.
3)
Q – How did Priam respect/greet Achilles? Tick one box. [1]
A – The third and final box – He took his hands.
4)
Q – How did Priam describe himself? [1]
A – Unlucky.
5)
Q – What happened before Achilles killed Hector? [3]
A – Formerly/ many of his sons/ died.
6)
Q - What did Priam say would happen to Achilles' father? [2]
A - He said that Achilles' father was an old man, just like Priam,/ and would soon die.
7)
Q – What happened after Priam finished speaking? [3]
A – Priam and Achilles/ cried/ for a long time.
8)
Q – What did Achilles say he would do? [3]
A – He said that he would give back/ Priam’s son/ to Priam.
9)
Q –Derivatives of the words polis and gune. [4]
Polis:
Politics/ politician / political – To do with city and state
Metropolis/ Metropolitan – Large/busy/capital/prime city or state
Policy - A course of action determined by a city or state
Cosmopolis / Cosmopolitan - a city inhabited by people from many different countries
Megalopolis - a very large/heavily populated city
Necropolis - Large cemetery of a(n ancient) city
Acropolis - Part of a(n ancient) city built on a hill
Gune: Gynaecologist/ Gynaecology – Practicioner/practice of women’s’ diseases.
Misogynist/ Misogynistic – hater of women/against women
Polygyny - Having many wives/ more than one wife.
Philogyny - Love of women
Gynophobia - Fear of women
Gynephilia - Sexual orientation towards women
Gynocentrism - entirely focusing on women
Total: 20 marks
Please note: the use of the slash in Sections A and C denote each marking point. In Section B they separate the five phrases, which are each worth four marks depending on how well you translated them with the following marks awarded in translation:
4: Correct translation with one minor error allowed.
3: Overall sense clear – one serious or two minor errors allowed.
2: Partcorrect, overall sense lacking/not clear.
1: Not coherent, isolated knowledge of vocabulary only.
0: Totally wrong or left out.
N.B - inconsequential errors should be ignored – minor errors are separate from them.
As you can see I have 18/20 marks of Section A (I forgot a question for sure), 20/20 marksof section B (but I feel like I have forgotten something) and 19/20 marks of Section C (I think one of the three markers was actually a four (5?), or maybe an extraquestion – not sure…)
Thought I'd make a mark scheme for the paper-but i have forgotten parts of it, so you will have to remind me
Section A
1)
Q- For how long did the Trojans and Greeks fight? [1]
A- 10 years
2)
Q- How was Achilles described? [2]
A- The bravest/ of the Greeks.
3)
Q- Describe in detail the terrible deed which Achilles did? [4]
A- Having fastened the corpse/ to the chariot, he dragged it/ around the walls of the city.
4)
Q- Who was Priam? Give two details. [2]
A- He was the King of Troy/ and the father of Hector
5)
Q– What did Priam want to do and why? [4] (or 3, not sure?)
A – He wanted to ask/ for the body of his son/ so that he could bury it/ according to custom.
6)
Q– What did Priam bring with him? [3]
A– He brought gold/ and other/ gifts.
7)
Q - How did Priam's wife fell about this plan? [2] (or maybe one... cannot remember!)
A - She was afraid of the danger
8)
Q– Which Greek word describes how he went there? Translate it into English. [2]
A – lathrai /in secret or secretly
Total: 20 marks.
Section B– Translation [20]
I can only remember bits:
/Priam was coming to the camp of Achilles by night in silence. The path was long and difficult./
Zeus, having noticed the old man and pitying him, sent Hermes to lead him./ Therefore the messenger of the gods immediately appeared,/ diguised as a young man from the camp of Achilles. /On the one hand, he was amazed, on the other hand the god told him not to be afraid./
Section C
1)
Q – When did Hermes disappear? [1]
A – When they reached/ the camp of Achilles.
2)
Q – Therefore what did Priam do? (Can’t remember the exact q…) [2]
A – He went in/ alone.
3)
Q – How did Priam respect/greet Achilles? Tick one box. [1]
A – The third and final box – He took his hands.
4)
Q – How did Priam describe himself? [1]
A – Unlucky.
5)
Q – What happened before Achilles killed Hector? [3]
A – Formerly/ many of his sons/ died.
6)
Q - What did Priam say would happen to Achilles' father? [2]
A - He said that Achilles' father was an old man, just like Priam,/ and would soon die.
7)
Q – What happened after Priam finished speaking? [3]
A – Priam and Achilles/ cried/ for a long time.
8)
Q – What did Achilles say he would do? [3]
A – He said that he would give back/ Priam’s son/ to Priam.
9)
Q –Derivatives of the words polis and gune. [4]
Polis:
Politics/ politician / political – To do with city and state
Metropolis/ Metropolitan – Large/busy/capital/prime city or state
Policy - A course of action determined by a city or state
Cosmopolis / Cosmopolitan - a city inhabited by people from many different countries
Megalopolis - a very large/heavily populated city
Necropolis - Large cemetery of a(n ancient) city
Acropolis - Part of a(n ancient) city built on a hill
Gune: Gynaecologist/ Gynaecology – Practicioner/practice of women’s’ diseases.
Misogynist/ Misogynistic – hater of women/against women
Polygyny - Having many wives/ more than one wife.
Philogyny - Love of women
Gynophobia - Fear of women
Gynephilia - Sexual orientation towards women
Gynocentrism - entirely focusing on women
Total: 20 marks
Please note: the use of the slash in Sections A and C denote each marking point. In Section B they separate the five phrases, which are each worth four marks depending on how well you translated them with the following marks awarded in translation:
4: Correct translation with one minor error allowed.
3: Overall sense clear – one serious or two minor errors allowed.
2: Partcorrect, overall sense lacking/not clear.
1: Not coherent, isolated knowledge of vocabulary only.
0: Totally wrong or left out.
N.B - inconsequential errors should be ignored – minor errors are separate from them.
As you can see I have 18/20 marks of Section A (I forgot a question for sure), 20/20 marksof section B (but I feel like I have forgotten something) and 19/20 marks of Section C (I think one of the three markers was actually a four (5?), or maybe an extraquestion – not sure…)
(edited 7 years ago)
For section A question 3 wasn't it "dragged it around the walls of the city?"
Also if I translated the optative in the passage as "so that he might lead him" instead of "in order to lead him" is that a major or minor error?
Also if I translated the optative in the passage as "so that he might lead him" instead of "in order to lead him" is that a major or minor error?
(edited 7 years ago)
Q5 I put so that it could be buried ... how many marks do you think that'll cost me?
Yeah I got the same @PlinyTheElder for question 3
In the middle of the translation when talking about Hermes it was something like 'disguised as a young man from Achilles' camp'...
Thanks for doing that! It was really good to see as I see them for other subjects but because there are so few of us doing Greek I didn't think one would be made!
Yeah I got the same @PlinyTheElder for question 3
In the middle of the translation when talking about Hermes it was something like 'disguised as a young man from Achilles' camp'...
Thanks for doing that! It was really good to see as I see them for other subjects but because there are so few of us doing Greek I didn't think one would be made!
Original post by PlinyTheElder
For section A question 3 wasn't it "dragged it around the walls of the city?"
Also if I translated the optative in the passage as "so that he might lead him" instead of "in order to lead him" is that a major or minor error?
Also if I translated the optative in the passage as "so that he might lead him" instead of "in order to lead him" is that a major or minor error?
It had the word Tes which matched with the word wall (Tau, Eta, Sigma) which is always genitive singular feminine, thus the word was wall, not walls. I'm pretty sure they used the word Polemioos (Pi, omicron, lambda, epsilon, mu, iota, omega, sigma) with the word Tos (Tau, omega, sigma) which meant around (peri + gen) the wall of the enemy. However the form of the word Teixe (Tau, Epsilon, iota, Xi, Eta) should be plural - I was confused - but i'm not sure that will effect the mark.
Probably major because you failed to recognise that it was a purpose clause which was use of optative. Could be minor if they think you recognised it but have the wrong tense. Hard to tell - but they are usually pretty lenient.
Original post by fuzz13
Q5 I put so that it could be buried ... how many marks do you think that'll cost me?
Yeah I got the same @PlinyTheElder for question 3
In the middle of the translation when talking about Hermes it was something like 'disguised as a young man from Achilles' camp'...
Thanks for doing that! It was really good to see as I see them for other subjects but because there are so few of us doing Greek I didn't think one would be made!
Yeah I got the same @PlinyTheElder for question 3
In the middle of the translation when talking about Hermes it was something like 'disguised as a young man from Achilles' camp'...
Thanks for doing that! It was really good to see as I see them for other subjects but because there are so few of us doing Greek I didn't think one would be made!
I reckon there was one mark for each of the following correctly stated phrases:
1 - He wanted to ask
1 - for the body of his son
1 - so that he could bury it
1- according to custom.
So if all you wrote was "so that he could bury it", one mark probably.
Regarding question 3: I would need to have another look at the greek, I've forgotten - likelihood is that you guys are right, but I cannot remember, sorry.
No problems about making the mark scheme - and thanks, I knew a clause was missing in the translation somewhere, that makes so much more sense now! About to change it. [edit: changed it]
(edited 7 years ago)
OK, it's time for a stupid question 
What's an optative? I think I already know and just do it without thinking, but can someone define it for me?
What's an optative? I think I already know and just do it without thinking, but can someone define it for me?
Also is "necropolis - city of the dead" an acceptable derivation/meaning for πολις?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by PlinyTheElder
Also is "necropolis - city of the dead" an acceptable derivation/meaning for πολις?
That's fine - you could also use that for νεκρόσ (corpse).
Original post by Martins1
Haha, yep. Honestly I can't remember the form, so I can't say it is for sure.
Do you do paper 2? Optatives are sure to come up then.
Do you do paper 2? Optatives are sure to come up then.
No, I'm doing only paper 1 but I have studied optatives though very briefly. I have realised that I've made several mistakes on this paper but thankfully nothing major, mostly just mixing up perfect passives and stuff like that, still have hopes of an A which is my target!
Original post by Caecilius'Garden
OK, it's time for a stupid question
What's an optative? I think I already know and just do it without thinking, but can someone define it for me?
What's an optative? I think I already know and just do it without thinking, but can someone define it for me?
No question is a stupid question except the question left unqestioned!
The optative is a mood used as something even more remote than a subjunctive. Whilst the indicative (normal) would say something like: I do something, the subjunctive would say: were i to do something and the optative would say: if i were to do something. It is often used for wishes or things unlikely to happen.
In this case it was used as part of a purpose clause with ina (iota, nu, alpha) + optative (rather than subjunctive because the main verb (he sent) was historic (because it was aorist)) - some of the constructions use the optative, but it is translated like a normal verb.
Original post by PlinyTheElder
Also is "necropolis - city of the dead" an acceptable derivation/meaning for πολις?
Yes, just added a tonne more defenitions to my answers - have a look, some are quite fun.
Original post by Nelliebelly
That's fine - you could also use that for νεκρόσ (corpse).
Yeah, it literally means city of the corpses/corpses ofteh city.
Original post by Nelliebelly
No, I'm doing only paper 1 but I have studied optatives though very briefly. I have realised that I've made several mistakes on this paper but thankfully nothing major, mostly just mixing up perfect passives and stuff like that, still have hopes of an A which is my target!
What do you think grade boundaries will be like? I think I may have lost a couple marks with "wall of the enemy" and I translated "Zeus noticing" instead of "Zeus having noticed", but overall I thought the paper was a pretty good one...
(EDIT: In 2012 they were 50/60 for A*, 2013 highest at 55/60, 2014 and 2015 52/60)
(EDIT: In 2012 they were 50/60 for A*, 2013 highest at 55/60, 2014 and 2015 52/60)
(edited 7 years ago)
Aha, thanks Martins1, it's less of an important thing in its own right for me, and more something I just do
Original post by Caecilius'Garden
Aha, thanks Martins1, it's less of an important thing in its own right for me, and more something I just do
No problem, thats really cool! I love Greek, but find it extremely difficult to revise due to the difference in alphabet and the fact that so few people actually do it - otherwise I may have taken it for AS.
Original post by Kaedra
What do you think grade boundaries will be like? I think I may have lost a couple marks with "wall of the enemy" and I translated "Zeus noticing" instead of "Zeus having noticed", but overall I thought the paper was a pretty good one...
(EDIT: In 2012 they were 50/60 for A*, 2013 highest at 55/60, 2014 and 2015 52/60)
(EDIT: In 2012 they were 50/60 for A*, 2013 highest at 55/60, 2014 and 2015 52/60)
For this one, I'd guess around 52. I'll have a look at those other few and compare them.
Original post by helenh567
I've made quite a few really stupid mistakes looking at these posts 😂 God help me for language 2
Haha, don't worry, you still have the weekend to revise for language two - and if tehy were stupid mistakes, I'm sure you can fix it
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.Original post by Martins1
X
Thanks for the mark scheme!
7) was how his wife felt about his plan (afraid of the danger)
Another question missed was what Priam said to Heracles about his father (an old man just like me who will soon die)
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