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‘F*** off Europe, were all voting OUT’ England fans ‘chant anti-EU songs at Euro 2016

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Original post by markova21
I don't know how many of you read the Sky News website. On their page today they have an article that says that David Cameron has said that if the UK leaves the EU pensions and free bus passes for the elderly will be at risk. You should read the comments. Last time I checked there were over 330 comments. Almost every single person commenting is going to vote to Leave. There are around eight people who have commented who plan to vote Remain.


right wingers are generally over-represented in comment sections. case in point: any daily mail online article, any bbc article with the comments enabled. BBC is claimed by right wingers to be left wing but in the comment section you'll find people spouting the most reactionary authoritarian or xenophobic crap.
Original post by Nidhoggr
VOTE BREXIT IF YOU WANT A BETTER BRITAIN FOR BRITISH PEOPLE (and vote Remain if you want to UK taxpayer money to keep on subsiding benefits for immigrants over British nationals)


You do know that immigrants had a net contribution of £20 to the treasury between 2001 and 2011 right? Paying in the money that is spent on the NHS, on benefits for British people, on schools, public transport and more
Original post by Kay_Winters
You do know that immigrants had a net contribution of £20 to the treasury between 2001 and 2011 right? Paying in the money that is spent on the NHS, on benefits for British people, on schools, public transport and more


Only £20? Oh wow, much impressive :tongue:
£20 billion sorry, thinking quicker than I could type :biggrin:
Original post by Kay_Winters
£20 billion sorry, thinking quicker than I could type :biggrin:


Funniest typo today 10/10
Original post by Kay_Winters
You do know that immigrants had a net contribution of £20 to the treasury between 2001 and 2011 right? Paying in the money that is spent on the NHS, on benefits for British people, on schools, public transport and more


Does this factor in the unemployment benefits paid to around 2 million unemployed people that would have had jobs if there was less population or the quality of life decrease due to the strain on housing and services?
Original post by Sephiroth
Does this factor in the unemployment benefits paid to around 2 million unemployed people that would have had jobs if there was less population or the quality of life decrease due to the strain on housing and services?


Strain on housing and services is not down to immigrants, bear in mind we had high levels of immigration before even joining the EEC as it was then due to commonwealth immigration after World War Two. The strain on housing and services is due to the chronic under funding in these areas by all Governments since 1979. There would be no strain if we actually funded schools, the NHS, surestart, ect and actually built affording houses, especially council housing which has been sold off at a much higher rate than it has been replaced since Right to Buy was introduced.

It is also worth noting that despite immigrants from the EU on average being better qualified than people in the UK, 60% of immigrants from places such as France and Germany have degrees, and 25% of immgrants from Countries such as Poland have degrees, they do the jobs we in this Country don't want to do. Do you want to be a cleaner in a hotel? Or work in afield all day? These jobs are sneered at by British people, the same British people who then when someone comes to do the work they don't want start to complain people are taking their jobs
#notallbrexiters
Original post by Kay_Winters


It is also worth noting that despite immigrants from the EU on average being better qualified than people in the UK, 60% of immigrants from places such as France and Germany have degrees, and 25% of immgrants from Countries such as Poland have degrees


It is quite odd to argue in favour of the present system on the basis that immigrants tend to be well educated given that, if we had control of our own borders, we could require them to be well educated if we so wished, and in fields which our economy needs.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
It is quite odd to argue in favour of the present system on the basis that immigrants tend to be well educated given that, if we had control of our own borders, we could require them to be well educated if we so wished, and in fields which our economy needs.


It wasn't an argument but a fact, immigration from the EU benefits us with the best and the brightest coming here for jobs in areas such as industry, science and R&D, and the free movement of labour allows this to happen easily without hassle and fuss. These people aren't coming here on a whim hoping for a job, but because they have a job, a job that will positively contribute to the UK economy and a job that may improve UK businesses.
Original post by Kay_Winters
It wasn't an argument but a fact, immigration from the EU benefits us with the best and the brightest coming here for jobs in areas such as industry, science and R&D, and the free movement of labour allows this to happen easily without hassle and fuss. These people aren't coming here on a whim hoping for a job, but because they have a job, a job that will positively contribute to the UK economy and a job that may improve UK businesses.


If you'd like to get into the effect of an EU immigration bias on British science and R&D, I commend to you the recent comments of Sir James Dyson, whom one would expect to know about this sort of thing.
I always find it funny... despite labour representing working class people, they don't half hate the fact that most of the people they represent are anti-immigration and EU.

It's akin to the conservatives, who by all rights should be mostly Pro-remain due to their voting core bloc, seem to be extremely pro-leave to gain votes :lol:

I love political hypocrisy sometimes :lol:
Original post by TimmonaPortella
If you'd like to get into the effect of an EU immigration bias on British science and R&D, I commend to you the recent comments of Sir James Dyson, whom one would expect to know about this sort of thing.


And thirteen Nobel Prize winners yesterday said leaving would put Uk science, to quote them, "in jeopardy", I think I would trust the Nobel Prize winners over one man, a man who's company tries to pay as little tax as possible, actively trying to avoid contributing to the economy of the Country it operates in.
Original post by DanB1991
I always find it funny... despite labour representing working class people, they don't half hate the fact that most of the people they represent are anti-immigration and EU.

It's akin to the conservatives, who by all rights should be mostly Pro-remain due to their voting core bloc, seem to be extremely pro-leave to gain votes :lol:

I love political hypocrisy sometimes :lol:


The Labour Party is an internationalist party which believes in equality and social justice. Why therefore would they ever be anti-immigrant.
Original post by Kay_Winters
The Labour Party is an internationalist party which believes in equality and social justice. Why therefore would they ever be anti-immigrant.


Because they're supposed to be socialist and pro-worker..... and you're suppose to represent your voters, not your own ideals at the end of the day.

If you're an unskilled worker and an immigrant undercuts your pay because they're willing to live in overcrowded housing... you're hardly going to be pro-immigration are you?
Original post by DanB1991
Because they're supposed to be socialist and pro-worker..... and you're suppose to represent your voters, not your own ideals at the end of the day.

If you're an unskilled worker and an immigrant undercuts your pay because they're willing to live in overcrowded housing... you're hardly going to be pro-immigration are you?


Labour represents a series of believes and ideals, an ideology, and people vote for that ideology. Labour's ideology is best described, imo, as democratic internationalist socialism, the believe that we achieve more together than alone, and that we achieve more as a internationalists than we achieve by being isolationists. This includes being pro-immigration (and pro-migration, allowing British people to easily be able to live abroad should they wish to).
Original post by Kay_Winters
And thirteen Nobel Prize winners yesterday said leaving would put Uk science, to quote them, "in jeopardy", I think I would trust the Nobel Prize winners over one man, a man who's company tries to pay as little tax as possible, actively trying to avoid contributing to the economy of the Country it operates in.


I know it's a struggle, but do try to stay on point. You made a specific comment about EU immigration benefiting UK science and R&D. I responded by citing the arguments of a man who runs a huge R&D operation and finds the in-built discrimination in favour of EU immigration burdensome. If you have anything at all to say on the substance of the matter I'd be happy to respond to it.

Unless your researchers have Nobel Prizes in government funding then their arguments are no more authoritative, let alone compelling, than those of anyone else who fears losing the flow of redistributed UK taxpayers' money from the EU at the hands of an elected Westminster government.
Original post by Kay_Winters
Strain on housing and services is not down to immigrants, bear in mind we had high levels of immigration before even joining the EEC as it was then due to commonwealth immigration after World War Two. The strain on housing and services is due to the chronic under funding in these areas by all Governments since 1979. There would be no strain if we actually funded schools, the NHS, surestart, ect and actually built affording houses, especially council housing which has been sold off at a much higher rate than it has been replaced since Right to Buy was introduced.

It is also worth noting that despite immigrants from the EU on average being better qualified than people in the UK, 60% of immigrants from places such as France and Germany have degrees, and 25% of immgrants from Countries such as Poland have degrees, they do the jobs we in this Country don't want to do. Do you want to be a cleaner in a hotel? Or work in afield all day? These jobs are sneered at by British people, the same British people who then when someone comes to do the work they don't want start to complain people are taking their jobs


At the end of the day there's two ways to solve the strain on housing and services. One is to do what you said, the other is to prevent the population from increasing. You can't avoid doing what you talk about while allowing massive population increases, it doesn't work. I don't mind immigration when done right (Australian style system) but right now the country is full and until the government do what you talk about it will remain full in my view and in many people's view. As we have no control over our borders we have to leave the EU.

As for your second paragraph, I find it hard to believe that in a country of 60 million people we need to look abroad for employees. People being underskilled is a myth that employers perpetuate in order to drive up competition for jobs, and competition means they can pay the people they do employ less. As for no skill jobs such as cleaning and field work, our unemployed should be made to take these kind of jobs instead of claiming benefits.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
I know it's a struggle, but do try to stay on point. You made a specific comment about EU immigration benefiting UK science and R&D. I responded by citing the arguments of a man who runs a huge R&D operation and finds the in-built discrimination in favour of EU immigration burdensome. If you have anything at all to say on the substance of the matter I'd be happy to respond to it.

Unless your researchers have Nobel Prizes in government funding then their arguments are no more authoritative, let alone compelling, than those of anyone else who fears losing the flow of redistributed UK taxpayers' money from the EU at the hands of an elected Westminster government.


And my reply was about EU immigration benefiting UK science and R&D as those who work in the science, and science has a direct affect on R&D, have said leaving would put UK science in jeopardy, both in part due to the money from the EU but also due to the end of freedom of movement, as it would stop experts, one in five of whom reside in the EU, in the rest of the EU being able to come to the UK easily to conduct research.

Secondly given you never actually quoted Dyson I went off what I found online, which was simply Dyson talking about how people would still want to trade with us, I didn't find any comments on immigration at all.
Original post by Kay_Winters
Labour represents a series of believes and ideals, an ideology, and people vote for that ideology. Labour's ideology is best described, imo, as democratic internationalist socialism, the believe that we achieve more together than alone, and that we achieve more as a internationalists than we achieve by being isolationists. This includes being pro-immigration (and pro-migration, allowing British people to easily be able to live abroad should they wish to).


*sigh* which is why I hate party politics... it returns us to a oligarchy system instead of a representative democracy. You should represent your voters, not your party.

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