So gay people are now being targeted by Islamic extremists in their own countries?
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Original post by The Epicurean
The BBC has stated:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-36510172
Homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-36510172
Homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.
Wishful thinking
Why are you all blaming Islam for this ? Ask the Muslims who live in western countries and i guarantee you more than 99.99 percent will tell you what this guy done was completely wrong . I am a muslim and i dont think its fair for people to think i am evil too or the rest of the innocent muslims . This man just happens to be Muslim and the media will use it to create a bad image of islam .
Original post by Abdifarah
Why are you all blaming Islam for this ? Ask the Muslims who live in western countries and i guarantee you more than 99.99 percent will tell you what this guy done was completely wrong . I am a muslim and i dont think its fair for people to think i am evil too or the rest of the innocent muslims . This man just happens to be Muslim and the media will use it to create a bad image of islam .
There's no doubt that the majority of western Muslims condemn terrorist acts like this, but there's no way its at that percentage.
No one is saying that all Muslim individuals are inherently bad, they're just pointing at the logical connection between what has happened and the religion this man followed.
Original post by Stormz1
Its also important to remember that it's because of the west terrorism has increased in general (rise of Isis).
What a self-discrediting and ahistoric statement.
Original post by The Epicurean
The BBC has stated:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-36510172
Homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.
The fact is that there is room for acceptance of homosexuality within Islam. There is no verse within the Quran which explicitly condemns homosexuality. I think in light of this event (which sources appear to point towards Islamic extremism), more needs to be done within the Muslim community to tackle the issue of homophobia and serious discussions need to take place over Islamic interpretations in regards to sexuality.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-36510172
Homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.
The fact is that there is room for acceptance of homosexuality within Islam. There is no verse within the Quran which explicitly condemns homosexuality. I think in light of this event (which sources appear to point towards Islamic extremism), more needs to be done within the Muslim community to tackle the issue of homophobia and serious discussions need to take place over Islamic interpretations in regards to sexuality.
Islam does condemn homosexual acts (not just rape) as shown in the story of lut where it is asked do you prefer to do such acts with the same gender.
Islam does not however justify the killing of all homosexuals.
I don't know if your Muslim and trying to defend Islam, but if you are then its important that you/we shouldn't change gods words to fit in with society.
If you are a Muslim, you submit your will to god and therefore carrying out homosexual acts is forbidden. If you do carry out such acts you are no longer Muslim. End of.
Being homosexual is alright, its the carrying out of the act which is not allowed. These are desires of the heart which should be controlled and it is used as a means to test us. Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.
Original post by Abdifarah
Why are you all blaming Islam for this ? Ask the Muslims who live in western countries and i guarantee you more than 99.99 percent will tell you what this guy done was completely wrong . I am a muslim and i dont think its fair for people to think i am evil too or the rest of the innocent muslims . This man just happens to be Muslim and the media will use it to create a bad image of islam .
I don't think the media creates a bad image of Islam. The attack was carried out by a Muslim, and he was doing it in the name of Islam. I agree that the vast majority of Muslims that I know would completely condemn these attacks but in order to stop future attacks Muslims need to a zero tolerance towards homophobia as there are plenty of Muslims that are homophobic and this is the root of the cause of this event. So yes innocent Muslims do have a part to play in ensuring they are not tolerant of homophobic ideas.
Original post by Abdifarah
Why are you all blaming Islam for this ?
It's crazy isn't it? You'd think the person who carried out the attack was a Muslim or something.
Original post by Stormz1
Islam does condemn homosexual acts (not just rape) as shown in the story of lut where it is asked do you prefer to do such acts with the same gender.
Islam does not however justify the killing of all homosexuals.
I don't know if your Muslim and trying to defend Islam, but if you are then its important that you/we shouldn't change gods words to fit in with society.
If you are a Muslim, you submit your will to god and therefore carrying out homosexual acts is forbidden. If you do carry out such acts you are no longer Muslim. End of.
Being homosexual is alright, its the carrying out of the act which is not allowed. These are desires of the heart which should be controlled and it is used as a means to test us. Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.
Islam does not however justify the killing of all homosexuals.
I don't know if your Muslim and trying to defend Islam, but if you are then its important that you/we shouldn't change gods words to fit in with society.
If you are a Muslim, you submit your will to god and therefore carrying out homosexual acts is forbidden. If you do carry out such acts you are no longer Muslim. End of.
Being homosexual is alright, its the carrying out of the act which is not allowed. These are desires of the heart which should be controlled and it is used as a means to test us. Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.
I guess Muhammed wasn't a muslim for stating this
Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Hydeman
What a self-discrediting and ahistoric statement.
Please explain how so?
Was Isis around/as prominent and powerful as it is before countries decided to go to the east to stop a 'weapon of mass destruction' which was never there? Was Isis there before western countries destroyed the countries and power balance even more. Was there this many migrants/immigrants and refugees before the wars which were catalyzed/ initiated by the west?
Original post by Stormz1
Islam does condemn homosexual acts (not just rape) as shown in the story of lut where it is asked do you prefer to do such acts with the same gender.
Islam does not however justify the killing of all homosexuals.
I don't know if your Muslim and trying to defend Islam, but if you are then its important that you/we shouldn't change gods words to fit in with society.
If you are a Muslim, you submit your will to god and therefore carrying out homosexual acts is forbidden. If you do carry out such acts you are no longer Muslim. End of.
Being homosexual is alright, its the carrying out of the act which is not allowed. These are desires of the heart which should be controlled and it is used as a means to test us. Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.
Islam does not however justify the killing of all homosexuals.
I don't know if your Muslim and trying to defend Islam, but if you are then its important that you/we shouldn't change gods words to fit in with society.
If you are a Muslim, you submit your will to god and therefore carrying out homosexual acts is forbidden. If you do carry out such acts you are no longer Muslim. End of.
Being homosexual is alright, its the carrying out of the act which is not allowed. These are desires of the heart which should be controlled and it is used as a means to test us. Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.
This is exactly the homophobic ideas that are held by Muslims that have led to the attacks we have seen. You might not agree that gay people should be killed but then Are against gay people. These are mainly American people killed in their own country, If they want to be openly gay they can be and should be able to without shame or fear from Muslims.
Original post by Listers
I guess Muhammed wasn't a muslim for stating this
Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."
Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."
Please rememebr that this is not from the Qur'an but form ahadith which are not all authentic even within the authentic collections. Look at Surah kafir in the Quran.
Another issue with that statement is that people didnt have sexual intercourse in public let alone acts of Lot so they wouldnt have known who would have done such things.
Original post by Cakey_101
How do you 'identify' someone as a Muslim?
Someone who has respect for the prophet Mohammad's words. Just because someone is asian does not make them muslim. Relegious txts have been manipulated by greedy narcasistic people since time began. The Quran teaches peace.
Original post by Abdifarah
Why are you all blaming Islam for this ? Ask the Muslims who live in western countries and i guarantee you more than 99.99 percent will tell you what this guy done was completely wrong . I am a muslim and i dont think its fair for people to think i am evil too or the rest of the innocent muslims . This man just happens to be Muslim and the media will use it to create a bad image of islam .
I think this man - and all the other terrorists who just happened to be Muslim - have created a bad image of Islam without the help of the media.
Hasn't Middle Eastern countries always been attacking gay people or something?
Original post by Stormz1
Please rememebr that this is not from the Qur'an but form ahadith which are not all authentic even within the authentic collections. Look at Surah kafir in the Quran.
Another issue with that statement is that people didnt have sexual intercourse in public let alone acts of Lot so they wouldnt have known who would have done such things.
Another issue with that statement is that people didnt have sexual intercourse in public let alone acts of Lot so they wouldnt have known who would have done such things.
You can't say the Hadith's aren't authentic because they portray Muhammed in a very bad light, there are certain verses in the Qur'an that require the hadith's for historical guidance, the shahdah is in the Hadith, the amount of times a muslim should pray is in the Hadith, the 5 pillars of Islam are in the Hadith so don't say they aren't authentic rather say that you were ignorant of these writings and now know a bit more about your supposed prophet.
Original post by Josb
I think this man - and all the other terrorists who just happened to be Muslim - have created a bad image of Islam without the help of the media.
I think Muhammed and his followers did a great job of that as well
Original post by Abdifarah
Why are you all blaming Islam for this ? Ask the Muslims who live in western countries and i guarantee you more than 99.99 percent will tell you what this guy done was completely wrong . I am a muslim and i dont think its fair for people to think i am evil too or the rest of the innocent muslims . This man just happens to be Muslim and the media will use it to create a bad image of islam .
bro its ramadhan so use some adab (manners) and for once lets be honest. We muslims havnt batted an eyelid at this because deep inside we are taught that gays are unatural and a distortion of Allahs creation. The very Arsh (thone) of Allah shakes when gays have sex ... we are indoctrinated to hate so please tell me where exactly you were taught not to hate??? You csnt blame the media for this
Original post by champ_mc99
Quick question: Would you say your explanations in Islam being able to accept homosexuality is also in agreement with the classical tafseers including Ibn Kathir?
The problem I have with Ibn Kathir is that his tafsir talks of the people of Lut inventing or creating whatever act they engaged in and that this act had never occurred or happened before. But I think most people would agree that homosexuality is not something that is invented or created.
But maybe some people don't believe in homosexuality to be natural. I've seen some Christian sources (I don't know whether there are any Islamic sources that I can turn to here) date the era of the people of Lot to 1,800 BC. So even if we were to ignore the biological evidence in support to homosexuality being natural, we would still have the archaeological evidence which supports the practice of homosexuality among humans pre-dating 1,800 BC. So there would be an onus on people to support a very early date for the people of Lut in order to pre-date the archaeological evidence.
Now it would seem more logical to me, if one were to follow the tafsir of Ibn Kathir, to assume that what is being discussed is a sexual position (sodomy) as opposed to homosexuality. One cannot invent homosexuality, but one can invent a sexual position. That said, I don't believe sodomy is the issue. But either way, I think in light of biological and archaeological evidence, Ibn Kathir's tafsir would support the idea that the issue is not homosexuality. For me that part is clear.
Original post by Josb
I think this man - and all the other terrorists who just happened to be Muslim - have created a bad image of Islam without the help of the media.
It is the media that portray Islam in a negative way . When a christian commited the norway massacre i dont remember the media mentioning he was a christian even once but if it was the other way round we all know what would have happened.
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