So gay people are now being targeted by Islamic extremists in their own countries?

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Oh so people are worrying about these f*cked up terrorists blowing up gay clubs, but no one give a sh*t about governments blowing up innocent people in third world countries!?

Reply 201

Stormz1

Original post by josephinemar25

This is exactly the homophobic ideas that are held by Muslims that have led to the attacks we have seen. You might not agree that gay people should be killed but then Are against gay people. These are mainly American people killed in their own country, If they want to be openly gay they can be and should be able to without shame or fear from Muslims.

Im against any form of sexual relationship in public. People have homes where they can conduct themselves as they wish. As for the fear in public, that is irrational and is called Islamophobia. You have a problem with homophobia but not Islamophobia?

Afghani, Iraqi and Syrian people have been killed in their countries for different beliefs and materialism for soo many years but it does'nt seem like many people care. Also where else do you expect American people to be killed apart from America- its where they live :tongue:

Reply 202

Unkempt_One

Original post by Stormz1

Islam does condemn homosexual acts (not just rape) as shown in the story of lut where it is asked do you prefer to do such acts with the same gender.

Islam does not however justify the killing of all homosexuals.

I don't know if your Muslim and trying to defend Islam, but if you are then its important that you/we shouldn't change gods words to fit in with society.

If you are a Muslim, you submit your will to god and therefore carrying out homosexual acts is forbidden. If you do carry out such acts you are no longer Muslim. End of.

Being homosexual is alright, its the carrying out of the act which is not allowed. These are desires of the heart which should be controlled and it is used as a means to test us. Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.

It's been decades since homosexuality was 'legalised' so to speak and societal opinions on incest haven't budged an inch. You're speaking from a position of paranoia.

Reply 203

xxvine

I don't see why religion is taking a huge part in this tragedy

America has a gun problem. Extremist or not.
The likes of this nut job and Adam Lanza are as bad as each other and they were able to do what they do due to how easy it is to get guns

Reply 204

Listers

Original post by Abdifarah

It is the media that portray Islam in a negative way .

no. It's the islamic terrorists that have committed nearly 25,000 different acts of terrorism since 9/11 that do that.

Original post by Abdifarah

When a christian commited the norway massacre i dont remember the media mentioning he was a christian even once but if it was the other way round we all know what would have happened.

This excerpt is from the New york times, probably the biggest news media outlet in America.

OSLO — The Norwegian man charged Saturday with a pair of attacks in Oslo that killed at least 92 people left behind a detailed manifesto outlining his preparations and calling for a Christian war to defend Europe against the threat of Muslim domination, according to Norwegian and American officials familiar with the investigation.As stunned Norwegians grappled with the deadliest attack in the country since World War II, a portrait began to emerge of the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik, 32. The police identified him as a right-wing fundamentalist Christian, while acquaintances described him as a gun-loving Norwegian obsessed with what he saw as the threats of multiculturalism and Muslim immigration.“We are not sure whether he was alone or had help,” a police official, Roger Andresen, said at a televised news conference. “What we know is that he is right wing and a Christian fundamentalist.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/world/europe/24oslo.html?_r=0

Reply 205

troubadour.

Original post by Stormz1

Was Isis around/as prominent and powerful as it is before countries decided to go to the east to stop a 'weapon of mass destruction' which was never there?

Yes - the existence of AQI, the Iraqi branch of al-Qaeda which is the IS's parent organisation, predates the 2003 invasion.

As for your point about WMDs - it could only be used to support your claims of guilt if it could be shown that it was known for certain that there weren't any and that the invasion went as planned despite this. This has yet to be done by anyone, though people do get away with simply asserting it given the strength of the anti-war sentiment among the public.

Was Isis there before western countries destroyed the countries and power balance even more.

As above, yes. The IS has existed as a distinct group by various names since 1999.

Your latter claim is again ahistoric, since it assumes either that there was no Salafi-jihadi insurgency and no sectarian conflict in postwar Iraq, or that there was, but the entire blame for that can be transferred to the occupying powers anyway. Do let me know if it's the latter, because we're unlikely to reach much agreement if it is.

Was there this many migrants/immigrants and refugees before the wars which were catalyzed/ initiated by the west?

This is something of an irrelevant question, given it assumes that only Western intervention could possibly produce an increase in the numbers of those seeking refuge, which is false.

And it's also false to pretend that refugees fleeing from IS-held areas are the fault of the West, especially given that many of them come from Syria and Libya, where, excepting a no-fly zone over the latter, no intervention against the incumbent regimes was undertaken.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 206

Chakede

Original post by Abdifarah

It is the media that portray Islam in a negative way . When a christian commited the norway massacre i dont remember the media mentioning he was a christian even once but if it was the other way round we all know what would have happened.

i think they commented that he was both a christian and right wing extremist consistently

but i suppose the stark facts have been there have been more attrocities specifically carried out under whats claimed as islamic ideologies than others - hence why that gets reported in media so much.
its more highlighted when you realise that muslims are at the same such a small minority
the real problem for all muslims is that all the muslims that are
decent respective ppl in the world and dont subscribe to these ideology are being put under suspicion by these acts. at the same time the muslim community must to more to prevent this happeing from within their ranks

Reply 207

Stormz1

Original post by Listers

You can't say the Hadith's aren't authentic because they portray Muhammed in a very bad light, there are certain verses in the Qur'an that require the hadith's for historical guidance, the shahdah is in the Hadith, the amount of times a muslim should pray is in the Hadith, the 5 pillars of Islam are in the Hadith so don't say they aren't authentic rather say that you were ignorant of these writings and now know a bit more about your supposed prophet.

Hadiths arent authentic when they contradict with the Qur'an. The 2 you mentioned clearly do as it is stated in the Quran that if one kills another then he has killed the whole of humanity.

And what i stated was the fact that not all hadiths are authenitc even within the authentic collection.

Reply 208

The Epicurean

Original post by Stormz1

Similarly, if your attracted to your sister you do not carry out acts with her. Give it a few years and incest would be socially acceptable but Islam should not change to accommodate this.

There is a reason why Muslims consider incest wrong, and that is because Surah An-Nisa explicitly says "Prohibited to you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters..." The Quran is explicit in prohibiting this. You wont however find in Surah An-Nisa any prohibition against same sex relationships. Surah An-Nisa does not prohibit first cousins from having relationships, and thus people within the Muslim community consider the absence if it being mentioned as prohibited means it is permissible. And there are many cases of Muslims having relationships with their first cousins. The same logic could be applied to same sex relationships.

Reply 209

ShaminiPamini

²²“‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 18 says this ^ Another translation of this verse is:
''It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man.''

How are you going to work your way around this verse?

Reply 210

Frannoooooooo

Original post by SmileyVibe

Hasn't Middle Eastern countries always been attacking gay people or something?

Yes. The Middle east contains some of the hand full of countries in which you can be executed for being a homosexual (Saudi Arabia, Iran and Yemen)

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 211

Plantagenet Crown

Disgusting crime committed in part due to a disgusting ideology: Islam.

May all the victims RIP.

Reply 212

QE2

Original post by Abdifarah

Why are you all blaming Islam for this ? Ask the Muslims who live in western countries and i guarantee you more than 99.99 percent will tell you what this guy done was completely wrong . I am a muslim and i dont think its fair for people to think i am evil too or the rest of the innocent muslims . This man just happens to be Muslim and the media will use it to create a bad image of islam .

Do you also condemn the passages of the Quran and sunnah that condone homophobic persecution, or call for the execution of homosexuals (under certain conditions)?

Spoiler

Reply 213

Unkempt_One

The interpretation of quranic verses is neither here nor there. Attitudes towards LGBT people among Muslims are abysmal. This is confirmed by opinion polls.

Reply 214

Listers

Original post by Stormz1

You are clearly one of those ignorant westernised muslims who know next to nothing about Islam and the Qur'an you recite and need non believers like myself to educate you on it as the verse you are referring to was an excerpt of an old testament message addressed to the Children of Israel and not meant for muslims, and the very next verse calls for death to unbelievers.
I'll show you.

Qur'an 5:32

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity. "

Quran 5:33

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful"

Reply 215

inhuman

#NotOneOfUs #NotATrueMuslim #ReligionOfPeace

Reply 216

Stormz1

Original post by The Epicurean

And there is a reason why muslims consider conducting homosexual acts wrong. Just because it isn't in surah nisa dosent mean it isnt in the Quran-
And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?(80)Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."(81) Al-Araf 80-81

i dont understand the reason behind your first point.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 217

inhuman

Original post by xxvine

It's so easy to kill people if you believe it's God will though...

Islam is to blame. It is an ideology that on a worldwide basis promotes violence and discrimination. It is to blame because it does nothing to change the views of its followers.

Yes, many western Muslims might think it's all good because they grew up here and mostly follow our culture, but they are completely ignorant of how most Muslims in the world see gays and women and infidel.

Reply 218

troubadour.

Original post by Fight Me

Oh so people are worrying about these f*cked up terrorists blowing up gay clubs, but no one give a sh*t about governments blowing up innocent people in third world countries!?

Original post by Stormz1

Afghani, Iraqi and Syrian people have been killed in their countries for different beliefs and materialism for soo many years but it does'nt seem like many people care.