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Original post by Tiger Rag
Extra time doesn't make the test easier. It gives me extra time to understand and fully read the question properly. It also means I'm not having to rush so much. I read slowly due to a sight condition I have. I'm also Autistic, which causes problems with how I understand language, meaning as well as reading slower than most people due to partial sight, I've got to read the question several times to actually understand it. Therefore, the extra time doesn't actually make it easier. It just puts me on a more level playing field as everyone else.

Extra time is a reasonable adjustment.

What the hell? Aside from my brain injury and hearing loss, all my disabilities are genetic. According to your bizarre logic, they're not disabilities, because they're genetic. Most people with one of my genetic conditions, go blind in their 30s.

I get the impression that you're just very bitter. You really have no idea how lucky you are that you don't need extra time or rest breaks, in order to do your exams.


Whilst I do not necessarily agree with this, I believe what is meant by this is that IQ could also be seen as a genetic disorder. Think about it - if you have a lower IQ, you probably will do worse than someone with a higher IQ with the equal amount of work and teaching. Therefore IQ is a factor in determining your grade. Yet, noone can really change their IQ, it is determined by what genes you inherited - so in some ways IQ is just as much of a factor as learning disabilitiies - but time isn't allocated based on peoples' IQ. Therefore some people would say that similarly, genes which cause disabilites inherited from parents should similarly not affect time allocation.

Personally, I do not agree with this.

Of course it all comes down to what you think should be examined. Some people think that if you put enough work in, you should be able to get that A* no matter your IQ, disabilities or individual abilities.
Others believe that exams ought to purely be a test of what you can do in that paper in 1 hour - no matter what disabilities, abilities or IQ you have. These people think that if a disability is affecting you, then that's part of the test and that is something which is going to take away from your grade, in the same way that not studying or having a low IQ would.
Others believe that it should be a test of IQ and your ability; so disabilities and work time shouldn't affect it. They believe that if you are clever and good at english, you ought to get a good grade in english no matter if you put in hours or have certain disabilities.
Overall, there are a lot of factors determining exam results, and everyone has different opinions about which should be tested and which should be equalled out in a level playing field
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Dalek1099
Most people have to rush quite a bit to finish exams I certainly have had to.Why should Autistic people get extra time?The exams don't test socialising skills?If you are struggling to understand text then it generally means your Reading skills are bad as text in exams is usually literal its certainly not the jokey sort of language autistic people would get confused with.


le sigh. One of the problems I have as an Autistic person, is how I understand written language. If I am given paragraphs of writing, I have to read them several times because I don't always understand what they really mean.

It's nothing to do with reading skills. It's to do with processing and understanding language.
Original post by Tiger Rag
le sigh. One of the problems I have as an Autistic person, is how I understand written language. If I am given paragraphs of writing, I have to read them several times because I don't always understand what they really mean.

It's nothing to do with reading skills. It's to do with processing and understanding language.


Again, its down to what people think should be examined. You can be examined on a whole host of things:
Understanding
Knowledge
Ability to convey facts/concepts
Analysis
Thinking speed/processing
IQ
Reading ability

There are also many that exams inadvertantly test: writing speed, reading speed etc.

People all have different views on what should be examined. Some would say only one of the things listed aboe, others would say a mixture - thus the disagreement.
Original post by Dalek1099
An employer will want 8 hours work not 6 thats what they are paying you for, tests for graduate schemes that employers will give you often have tight time limits just as exams.As I have said before exams have strict time limits so clearly speed is being assessed and thus slow processing should result in a lower grade.

Your mother didn't get 50% extra time for her exams though?

Giving people extra time makes the test easier(99% of people would probably agree), it makes it substantially easier for people like you as thats the skill you are bad at no longer being tested.I think most students would agree that finishing the test in time is actually a difficult skill that many struggle with and end up not finishing questions or not completing them properly due to rushing and silly mistakes and not enough time to think through the question(I didn't finish 2 of my University exams I didn't miss out that much though).If you got the most difficult exam questions and gave everyone more time I think a lot of people would have cracked them and got them right.

A more reasonable argument would be whether the examination time should be increased so as to not assess speed but I think this is a skill many employers would want and this is indicated by the timed tests they give potential employees.

I also don't really get why these disabilities count as disabilities you have it as a result of getting some bad genes from your parents, students who are very dumb and don't perform well in exams have also got bad genes from their parents/bad environmental factors and those who perform well have got good genes/good environmental factors.If we accounted for genes and environmental factors everyone would probably get about the same and then all the exams would be pointless.


I run my own business from home as well as doing my A-levels, I am self employed and after my law degree I plan to qualify as a barrister. The reason I say this is for two reasons. The first is that, as of right now I don't have an 'employer' I am my own boss, you're assuming every career under the sun works from 9 to 5 and requires me to sit and write non stop which is where most people with extra time struggle. So where do you suppose I work if employers won't want to hire me because you can write quicker than me? Ever heard of a laptop? Its bloody marvellous and is used in many woking environments!

Secondly, the career I have chosen requires me to have hefty knowledge (tested at A-Level), an ability to get things done at a reasonable speed yes fair enough tested at A-Level, but a lot of my work will be verbal, meeting with clients, discussing plans, meetings, debating, high confidence... many things that aren't tested at GCSE or A-Level.

So maybe you come back and say that I if it takes me longer to write than everyone else, why would you take A-Levels? Well options are limited, I have applied and had offers from top universities which means that BTEC's wouldn't have cut it, lets face it A-Levels are a ticket into university. I have every right to take A-Levels in order to go to university.

My mother took O Levels, back in those days the time limits weren't nearly as sharp as they are now, I often hear the older generations talking about how they were sat in the exam halls for hours as they were simply being tested on knowledge rather than speed of writing, I believe thats what A-Levels should be. Even if she did have extra time in exams, exams weren't as crucial back then as they are now, hell you could get unconditional's with a few D's and Cs' back them.

This is how I see extra time, a boy with only one leg is clearly at a disadvantage in a running race, so to try and combat this, you give him a prosthetic. Is that unfair? Because thats whats happening with me, only my disabilities can't be seen.

Why should I settle for a university that isn't as prestigious or academically recognised simply because it takes me longer to write down my answers to yours? If we have the exact same answers, why should you attend a better university just because you finished ten minutes before me? Extra time would make the exam easier for you as someone without a disability! Not me!!!! Having extra time puts me at the same level as you believe me, you're acting closed minded because you can't grasp the idea of not physically being able to write quick enough for an exam to the point that it massively impacts your life.

You're clearly intimidated by those who have extra time in exams, your final paragraph screams it. I think your ego would thrive if extra time was removed, to watch more intelligent and hard working people score lower than you simply because you can write quicker. The most important skills required for work are those not tested, they shine through and spread through word of mouth and demonstration in interviews, not a grade on a piece of paper, GCSE's and A-Levels are rarely looked at after university!
Original post by Tiger Rag
le sigh. One of the problems I have as an Autistic person, is how I understand written language. If I am given paragraphs of writing, I have to read them several times because I don't always understand what they really mean.

It's nothing to do with reading skills. It's to do with processing and understanding language.


There is no difference, when I did my Reading exams what was assessed was your understanding and processing of the language you didn't get any marks for simply reading it.
Original post by georgia-hughes

This is how I see extra time, a boy with only one leg is clearly at a disadvantage in a running race, so to try and combat this, you give him a prosthetic. Is that unfair? Because thats whats happening with me, only my disabilities can't be seen.

Why should I settle for a university that isn't as prestigious or academically recognised simply because it takes me longer to write down my answers to yours? If we have the exact same answers, why should you attend a better university just because you finished ten minutes before me? Extra time would make the exam easier for you as someone without a disability! Not me!!!! Having extra time puts me at the same level as you believe me, you're acting closed minded because you can't grasp the idea of not physically being able to write quick enough for an exam to the point that it massively impacts your life.

You're clearly intimidated by those who have extra time in exams, your final paragraph screams it. I think your ego would thrive if extra time was removed, to watch more intelligent and hard working people score lower than you simply because you can write quicker. The most important skills required for work are those not tested, they shine through and spread through word of mouth and demonstration in interviews, not a grade on a piece of paper, GCSE's and A-Levels are rarely looked at after university!


Could I just say that this clearly shows that you believe that hard work, knowledge and intelligence is what should be tested (I personally agree) - but not everyone agrees. As I said above, many people believe that exams should just be a test of what you can get done in a certain time limit and everything, including disabilites, is therefore being tested. You may not agree, in teh same way I disagree with that point of view, but it is a valid view and you should accept that.

Imagine being someone who had a very low IQ - like to the point where it has "medical terminology". You would feel disadvantaged because no matter how much work you put in, you can't beat that genius with a 150 IQ in any exam despite the fact that they never do work or pay attention in class. That could easily be seen as unfair - I mean they can't change their IQ no matter what - it is all down to genes. Yet is it fair to have a sort of handicap, meaning that depending on your IQ, all your grades are levelled out? I mean, just because you are a genius, it doesn't take away from the fact that you knew every question on the test - so why should you lose marks? This is the same sort of dilemma as having a disability. Now, I believe, as do you, that disabilities should be allowed extra time to even out the playing field. I also believe that IQ should not be levelled out, maybe you diagree. Either way, we both have arguments for and against the IQ argument, and teh same is true with disabilites. Some people think that if you have disabilities, then that's just as bad as having a lower IQ - I disagree - so they are all valid opinions.

Just my two cents.
Original post by Martins1
Could I just say that this clearly shows that you believe that hard work, knowledge and intelligence is what should be tested (I personally agree) - but not everyone agrees. As I said above, many people believe that exams should just be a test of what you can get done in a certain time limit and everything, including disabilites, is therefore being tested. You may not agree, in teh same way I disagree with that point of view, but it is a valid view and you should accept that.

Imagine being someone who had a very low IQ - like to the point where it has "medical terminology". You would feel disadvantaged because no matter how much work you put in, you can't beat that genius with a 150 IQ in any exam despite the fact that they never do work or pay attention in class. That could easily be seen as unfair - I mean they can't change their IQ no matter what - it is all down to genes. Yet is it fair to have a sort of handicap, meaning that depending on your IQ, all your grades are levelled out? I mean, just because you are a genius, it doesn't take away from the fact that you knew every question on the test - so why should you lose marks? This is the same sort of dilemma as having a disability. Now, I believe, as do you, that disabilities should be allowed extra time to even out the playing field. I also believe that IQ should not be levelled out, maybe you diagree. Either way, we both have arguments for and against the IQ argument, and teh same is true with disabilites. Some people think that if you have disabilities, then that's just as bad as having a lower IQ - I disagree - so they are all valid opinions.

Just my two cents.


I respect your point of view and it is a very in depth debate that really cannot be solved with keeping or removing extra time alone, this debate could stem back to the reason we take exams in the first place. The link between IQ and A-Levels can be complex. Even with an extremely high IQ, I doubt you couldn't walk into any A-level exam and get full marks, (it really depends on what subject you take) yet someone with the lowest IQ could walk into any exam, having predicted and learnt the exact questions that may come up that year, and get a very high score. Standardised testing is flawed in many ways.

But what would you propose instead of A-Levels? This is what it really comes down to! Theres so many arguments being thrown out on here but I am yet to hear an alternative that provides a realistic route through university.Even BTEC's aren't accepted in many top universities.

An idea that has just come to my mind is something I discussed in my first post about extra time and it was about my ICT exam. My ICT exam is two and a half hours long and it is worth 80/90 marks AS/A-Level. I didn't need extra time on this exam and I scored a very high grade. The questions are worth low marks but obviously add up. This may show that this is probably quite a suitable type of exam for me if I didn't need to use my extra time. Does this mean that we should all take exams where the question style naturally suits us better or should we choose subjects that we are most interested in?
I always loved maths and it was one of my best subjects, I didn't take it for A-level as I preferred my other subjects but maybe I should have due to the short nature of the questions? I don't know? But maybe adding a wider range of subjects at A-level would reduce the need for people like me needing extra time, provided the time frames and question styles were reasonable?
Original post by Tinka99
I have learning difficulties and sitting my GCSE's this year and if I did not get 25% extra time, a reader and a quieter room I would fail as I generally am disadvantaged.


You would join legions of people who fail
Reply 448
Original post by V ugvg jhi
You would join legions of people who fail


I am predicted 5A's and 5B's for GCSE.
Also, more people in private schools get extra time.Just another way to disadvantage those not from the upper class.The system is being abused by the private schools, and doesn't reflect how things would be in real life. Many people who know how to fail the test deliberately do so, to make sure they get the time without deserving it.



SCRAP EXTRA TIME!!!!!
Original post by Tinka99
I am predicted 5A's and 5B's for GCSE.


I am predicted 8A*s and 4 A's(and I am not the the smartest in my year) so your grades aren't a big deal.Secondly, YOU said you would fail, without extra time.

Don't blame me for what you said.Really, extra time should just be abolished.If I knew when I was being tested by disabilities, I would have gotten extra time too. The system is subject to widespread cheating, and it is easier to be rid of it.
Original post by V ugvg jhi
Also, more people in private schools get extra time.Just another way to disadvantage those not from the upper class.The system is being abused by the private schools, and doesn't reflect how things would be in real life. Many people who know how to fail the test deliberately do so, to make sure they get the time without deserving it.



SCRAP EXTRA TIME!!!!!


*Working class, there's no such thing as "Class".....If you work for a living, you're working class personally
Original post by V ugvg jhi
Also, more people in private schools get extra time.Just another way to disadvantage those not from the upper class.The system is being abused by the private schools, and doesn't reflect how things would be in real life. Many people who know how to fail the test deliberately do so, to make sure they get the time without deserving it.



SCRAP EXTRA TIME!!!!!


I was in private education from the age of 4 until 16, only received extra time once I moved to an academy for sixth form. Barely anybody at my private school had extra time compared to where I am now. And I think you ought to educate yourself in the class system, you're getting confused with upper class and middle class.
Original post by Martins1
Could I just say that this clearly shows that you believe that hard work, knowledge and intelligence is what should be tested (I personally agree) - but not everyone agrees. As I said above, many people believe that exams should just be a test of what you can get done in a certain time limit and everything, including disabilites, is therefore being tested. You may not agree, in teh same way I disagree with that point of view, but it is a valid view and you should accept that.

Just my two cents.


This is only really a valid view if time is a key skill being tested otherwise the test will not do what it set out to do- as such I do think that view is highly ridiculous. A such at medical school some of the oral/ practicle examinations do not have an extra time allowance for anyone as they test your ability in a situation where time is important but other exams (written recall) extra time is allowed because time is not a key to the function of the assessment, which is the primary point is to assess your knowledge.
As i tried to say if time is a key to the aims of the assent then this is a perfectly valid point of view but otherwise I just feel the people holding the view are a little on the stupid side as I am yet to see a good justification for its generic application.
Original post by Dalek1099
An employer will want 8 hours work not 6 thats what they are paying you for, tests for graduate schemes that employers will give you often have tight time limits just as exams.As I have said before exams have strict time limits so clearly speed is being assessed and thus slow processing should result in a lower grade.


As some one already pointed out the flaw in this argument being that in the most cases we will not pick a job that doesn't already have the adjusment inherent in the job description. My dad is one of the UK's leading muscular skeletal radiologists and his sister is the UK's Chief Medical Officer both have show strong sign of having slow processing speeds- hence funny neither are emergency room doctors but chose option where a slow, methodical approach to their work was necessary to best outcomes. It is not special adjustment for them its just there weakness is also their strength comes to the job they come/ is required by their job description.
Original post by Midgeymoo17
This is only really a valid view if time is a key skill being tested otherwise the test will not do what it set out to do- as such I do think that view is highly ridiculous. A such at medical school some of the oral/ practicle examinations do not have an extra time allowance for anyone as they test your ability in a situation where time is important but other exams (written recall) extra time is allowed because time is not a key to the function of the assessment, which is the primary point is to assess your knowledge.
As i tried to say if time is a key to the aims of the assent then this is a perfectly valid point of view but otherwise I just feel the people holding the view are a little on the stupid side as I am yet to see a good justification for its generic application.


A good justification is to stop moaning like lil *****es and get on with it.
No one is judging you as a person but in fact...lots of people think the need for extra time is a falacy.
Original post by OturuDansay
A good justification is to stop moaning like lil *****es and get on with it.
No one is judging you as a person but in fact...lots of people think the need for extra time is a falacy.


Right now I think there is only one person moaning and that is not me. And with regards to the get on with it comment- I very much do- as such would love to see you do a day as me.- not an exam a day. Judging by your posts your patience would not last beyond 7 am.
Original post by OturuDansay
That's no one elses problem though? I used to be really slow at understanding but then my dad kept on getting on at me so to save myself anymore torture i got better and faster, like everyone else learns to do. I just got on with it, instead of moaning and finding an excuse for my failures.


A learning disability isn't an excuse. It's well documented that people with Autism do have problems with how they understand language.
As someone who gets 25% extra time, I think it's perfectly fair for certain people to receive extra time. People who say to me it's not fair that I get more time often do not understand the reasons why I get extra time. I get extra time because my processing speed is incredibly low (my test result was below the first percentile) and because I find it difficult to concentrate (so if my mind wanders during the exam, I still have time to finish it).

I do understand however that indeed, it is unfair when people cheat the system to receive extra time. However, it is incredibly difficult to successfully do this, as you must have evidence that before the extra time you were underperforming and not finishing exams, have a low test score in at least 1 section that supports any disability you have, and mountains of evidence that after receiving extra time your exam results are improving.

In total, it took me 2 years to gather all the evidence I needed, so unless you fail exams on purpose for 2 years and fail the test on purpose, then you shouldn't be able to get extra time for no reason in exams.
Reply 459
Original post by Shiba_Inu
As someone who gets 25% extra time, I think it's perfectly fair for certain people to receive extra time. People who say to me it's not fair that I get more time often do not understand the reasons why I get extra time. I get extra time because my processing speed is incredibly low (my test result was below the first percentile) and because I find it difficult to concentrate (so if my mind wanders during the exam, I still have time to finish it).

I do understand however that indeed, it is unfair when people cheat the system to receive extra time. However, it is incredibly difficult to successfully do this, as you must have evidence that before the extra time you were underperforming and not finishing exams, have a low test score in at least 1 section that supports any disability you have, and mountains of evidence that after receiving extra time your exam results are improving.

In total, it took me 2 years to gather all the evidence I needed, so unless you fail exams on purpose for 2 years and fail the test on purpose, then you shouldn't be able to get extra time for no reason in exams.


It took you 2 years to gather evidence? I have never heard of the process taking so long.

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