The Student Room Group

Why do people listen to politicians instead of scientists?

An international commission of medical researchers concludes that banning drugs leads to more deaths, more addiction, more crime, and doesn't affect how many people use them. Theresa May (with a degree in geography) says we need to ban more drugs. People applaud Theresa May.

Leading teachers and education academics say that proposed education reforms will harm student's education. Michael Gove (degree in English) disagrees. People accept the reforms.

Technology experts, ISPs, security professionals warn that the Snoopers' Charter will put all of us at risk, while not actually stopping any terrorism. Theresa May disagrees. People go along with it.

Why do people listen to completely unqualified politicians when thousands of knowledgeable people say they're wrong? Why are people ignorant or arrogant enough to form their own opinions based on a few minutes of research, and think that people who study these things for a living are all wrong?

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Reply 1
Because it's a democracy. I agree that politicians are a history of going against expert advice, but to be fair they were elected (ish) to make the decisions, and the experts weren't.
Original post by offhegoes
Because it's a democracy. I agree that politicians are a history of going against expert advice, but to be fair they were elected (ish) to make the decisions, and the experts weren't.


So what? How does living in a democracy stop people from basing their opinions on facts and evidence?
Reply 3
Original post by JordanL_
So what? How does living in a democracy stop people from basing their opinions on facts and evidence?


People "consent" to the reforms because short of forcing the government to resign the politicians have been given our mandate to make these decisions. Of course this does not mean they will respresent us well on every issue, but that is always an assessment we have to make before voting.

In terms of whether or not people actually agree, well... People do campaign and protest against the Snoopers' Charter and Gove's educational reforms. Teachers have held strikes and so on.

Sadly sometimes people are just not looking for experts to provide fresh insight, they just want to have their own opinions confirmed. They have always suspected that teachers are useless, schools need changing, all drugs should be illegal and the internet is evil. They don't want to hear otherwise, especially when that might mean more tax.
Reply 4
Original post by JordanL_
An international commission of medical researchers concludes that banning drugs leads to more deaths, more addiction, more crime, and doesn't affect how many people use them. Theresa May (with a degree in geography) says we need to ban more drugs. People applaud Theresa May.

Leading teachers and education academics say that proposed education reforms will harm student's education. Michael Gove (degree in English) disagrees. People accept the reforms.

Technology experts, ISPs, security professionals warn that the Snoopers' Charter will put all of us at risk, while not actually stopping any terrorism. Theresa May disagrees. People go along with it.

Why do people listen to completely unqualified politicians when thousands of knowledgeable people say they're wrong? Why are people ignorant or arrogant enough to form their own opinions based on a few minutes of research, and think that people who study these things for a living are all wrong?


Just because they're a scientist doesn't mean they have a clue about the real world, ethics, economics, defence etc. Also when you look into the various things they are claiming they are either relatively unproven, biased based on their own political view or there are many pieces of evidence that disprove their stance. Still I agree too many throw out findings without sufficient research or listening to the politician.
Even scientists get it wrong sometimes. Anyone remember the MMR autism scandal?
Original post by offhegoes
People "consent" to the reforms because short of forcing the government to resign the politicians have been given our mandate to make these decisions. Of course this does not mean they will respresent us well on every issue, but that is always an assessment we have to make before voting.

In terms of whether or not people actually agree, well... People do campaign and protest against the Snoopers' Charter and Gove's educational reforms. Teachers have held strikes and so on.

Sadly sometimes people are just not looking for experts to provide fresh insight, they just want to have their own opinions confirmed. They have always suspected that teachers are useless, schools need changing, all drugs should be illegal and the internet is evil. They don't want to hear otherwise, especially when that might mean more tax.


But why do people consent? Why would people repeatedly elect an anti-science government? There has to be some problem in our society that causes people to ignore qualified scientists and come to their own conclusions instead.

As for people protesting, it's a tiny minority. A recent poll found that most people don't even know about the Snoopers' Charter. And while there did seem to be a huge amount of teachers protesting the education reforms, the general public seemed completely apathetic towards it. It seems like, unless we're talking about immigration or the economy, people aren't interested.

Original post by sebby491
Just because they're a scientist doesn't mean they have a clue about the real world, ethics, economics, defence etc. Also when you look into the various things they are claiming they are either relatively unproven, biased based on their own political view or there are many pieces of evidence that disprove their stance. Still I agree too many throw out findings without sufficient research or listening to the politician.
Original post by shawn_o1
Even scientists get it wrong sometimes. Anyone remember the MMR autism scandal?

This is a silly cop out. Of course they get it wrong sometimes, but I'd rather side with the people that get it right 99% of the time than the people that do whatever's popular and hope for the best.

As for MMR, the scientific consensus has ALWAYS been that the MMR vaccine doesn't cause autism. That entire myth was started by one rogue scientist, while the rest of the scientific community vehemently opposed their claims. The scientists didn't get it wrong at all, and if people had listened to the scientific consensus instead of latching on to what they wanted to hear, that scandal would never have happened.

Of course, the media reported on blatantly fraudulent claims as if it were fact, so people can't be completely blamed for falling for it, but it doesn't change the fact that scientists got nothing wrong.
Many politicians have more of a 'persona' than some scientists; also, politicians have the power to actually change the laws whereas scientists can only publish their findings?
Charisma.
Experts can be biased as well and usually have differing opinions. The Thick Of It summed it up quite well: "You have spoken to the wrong expert, you've got to ask the right expert. And you need to know what the expert is going to advise you before he advises you."
Reply 10
Original post by JordanL_
But why do people consent? Why would people repeatedly elect an anti-science government? There has to be some problem in our society that causes people to ignore qualified scientists and come to their own conclusions instead.

As for people protesting, it's a tiny minority. A recent poll found that most people don't even know about the Snoopers' Charter. And while there did seem to be a huge amount of teachers protesting the education reforms, the general public seemed completely apathetic towards it. It seems like, unless we're talking about immigration or the economy, people aren't interested.


For significant protests to happen people need to be engaged enough to find out what's happening, educated enough to understand the evidence and believe that their voice could actually make a difference or matter. And even then there's dinner to be made, the kids need to be picked up, the car needs to go in for its MOT...For a whole range of reasons the majority of the population is just not going to finds itself gathering together and protesting.
Original post by emmald583
Many politicians have more of a 'persona' than some scientists; also, politicians have the power to actually change the laws whereas scientists can only publish their findings?


But people could listen to scientists and vote for a party that's going to implement evidence-based policy.

Original post by LordMallard
Experts can be biased as well and usually have differing opinions. The Thick Of It summed it up quite well: "You have spoken to the wrong expert, you've got to ask the right expert. And you need to know what the expert is going to advise you before he advises you."


I don't think that's fair. If we're going to dismiss hard evidence because experts can be biased, we might as well just roll a dice to decide who we vote for.

Expert opinions are better than non-expert opinions. Experts can be biased, but non-experts are biased AND uninformed. Even then, a consensus is a consensus, and the evidence is out there for people to review if they really doubt it.

You're just dismissing the best method we have for making decisions with "people can be biased".

Original post by offhegoes
For significant protests to happen people need to be engaged enough to find out what's happening, educated enough to understand the evidence and believe that their voice could actually make a difference or matter. And even then there's dinner to be made, the kids need to be picked up, the car needs to go in for its MOT...For a whole range of reasons the majority of the population is just not going to finds itself gathering together and protesting.


This is true, but I believe that if people don't have the time or the inclination to do their research, they shouldn't form an opinion on something. People could defer to the expert consensus instead of pulling something from thin air.
Original post by JordanL_
But people could listen to scientists and vote for a party that's going to implement evidence-based policy.


They could, but many people would seem to prefer being swept along with party propaganda from charismatic politicians than check out the facts themselves.
Couple of reasons;

Firstly politicians aren't in the business of making good decisions, doing what is best for you, representing your opinions or anything like that. They are in the business of telling you what you want to hear in a desperate attempt to stay in a position to rule over you. Unsurprisingly people like having their own opinions confirmed and spouted back at them. The scientific community doesn't do that, they'll tell you how things are which a lot of the time is in opposition to what people want to hear.

Secondly; certainty. How many times have you seen politicians declare that this or that WILL happen with absolute certainty? Science doesn't offer that, science admits it might be wrong but it offers the best possible answer with the available evidence as opposed to politicians who offer the absolute best answer with next to no evidence.
Because politicians generally have think-tanks, experts and scientists helping them in designing and choosing policies. It's not like they're making their decisions own their own. It's just that many experts have differing opinions and sometimes expert opinions do not translate into good policies. Often many political goals conflict with one another, where experts can only state, what choice leads to what consequence.

One expert states that banning drugs leads to more deaths, more addiction and more crime, while another expert states that legalization of drugs will lead to more widespread use and a considerable increase in regular users. A politicial decisions will now have to be made. An environmental expert states that cutting down on coal mining and burning fossil fuels leads to cleaner air and a better environment for people whereas an energetics expert states that decreasing fossil fuel output greatly harms the coal industry leading to tens of thousands of people losing their jobs and increasing power costs - once again, a political decision will have to be made.

In any case, I think you're jumping the gun here. Politicians do listen to experts and scientists, but at the end of the day they are beholden to their constituents.
Original post by Zorgotron
Because politicians generally have think-tanks, experts and scientists helping them in designing and choosing policies. It's not like they're making their decisions own their own. It's just that many experts have differing opinions and sometimes expert opinions do not translate into good policies. Often many political goals conflict with one another, where experts can only state, what choice leads to what consequence.


Just because they have them, they don't necessarily listen to them. Think-tanks and advisors are a total waste of money. ****, when the drugs advisory panel suggested that cannabis should be reclassified, Labour sacked the boss and shut them down. Their expert advisors say what they want to hear or they lose their jobs.

One expert states that banning drugs leads to more deaths, more addiction and more crime, while another expert states that legalization of drugs will lead to more widespread use and a considerable increase in regular users. A politicial decisions will now have to be made. An environmental expert states that cutting down on coal mining and burning fossil fuels leads to cleaner air and a better environment for people whereas an energetics expert states that decreasing fossil fuel output greatly harms the coal industry leading to tens of thousands of people losing their jobs and increasing power costs - once again, a political decision will have to be made.


There's a huge difference between one expert saying something, and there being a consensus among a field. There's a global consensus about fossil fuels. There's a global consensus about drug criminalisation. These aren't throwaway comments by a couple of academics.

In any case, I think you're jumping the gun here. Politicians do listen to experts and scientists, but at the end of the day they are beholden to their constituents.


But why are their constituents so opposed to evidence-based policy?
Reply 16
Human beings are stupid.

The world is ****ed.
Original post by shawn_o1
Even scientists get it wrong sometimes. Anyone remember the MMR autism scandal?


You'll dismiss this as a "no true Scotsman" argument, I'm sure, but the perpetrators of that scandal were not scientists. Not everyone who calls themselves scientists truly are.
Reply 18
Original post by Zorgotron
Because politicians generally have think-tanks, experts and scientists helping them in designing and choosing policies. It's not like they're making their decisions own their own. It's just that many experts have differing opinions and sometimes expert opinions do not translate into good policies. Often many political goals conflict with one another, where experts can only state, what choice leads to what consequence.

One expert states that banning drugs leads to more deaths, more addiction and more crime, while another expert states that legalization of drugs will lead to more widespread use and a considerable increase in regular users. A politicial decisions will now have to be made. An environmental expert states that cutting down on coal mining and burning fossil fuels leads to cleaner air and a better environment for people whereas an energetics expert states that decreasing fossil fuel output greatly harms the coal industry leading to tens of thousands of people losing their jobs and increasing power costs - once again, a political decision will have to be made.

In any case, I think you're jumping the gun here. Politicians do listen to experts and scientists, but at the end of the day they are beholden to their constituents.


You missed the entire point of the thread.

You are right, yes, politicians answer to the constituency.

But what you missed about this thread is that people do not take time to research and learn that most leading experts think x about drugs. The people themselves think y, so the politician, if he wants to keep his votes, needs to to y.

The number of times he does do x, he or she gets **** for it. And that's the point of the thread. People want y, can't be bothered to educate themselves so don't realize x is better. Hence they want politicians to do y.
Original post by JordanL_
Just because they have them, they don't necessarily listen to them. Think-tanks and advisors are a total waste of money. ****, when the drugs advisory panel suggested that cannabis should be reclassified, Labour sacked the boss and shut them down. Their expert advisors say what they want to hear or they lose their jobs.


Of course, not always do politicians listen to expert advice, but it's also patently wrong to imply that they never take expert opinion into account.

Original post by JordanL_

There's a huge difference between one expert saying something, and there being a consensus among a field. There's a global consensus about fossil fuels. There's a global consensus about drug criminalisation. These aren't throwaway comments by a couple of academics.


There would also probably be global consensus that making people wear helmets 24/7 would drastically decrease all head-related injuries. But would this be a good policy?

You also treat all problems of governance as if each exists in a vacuum. If there's an environmental problem, lets listen to what the environmental expert says and do that. If there's an energy problem, lets listen to an energetics expert and do that. But problems do not exist in a vacuum - a solution for an environmental problem could make energy problems even worse and vice versa. Here expert opinions no longer work, because a political decision will now have to be made - do we prefer a greener environment or a more wealthy society?


Original post by JordanL_

But why are their constituents so opposed to evidence-based policy?


Because they don't want it. You can provide me with all the evidence in the world that wearing a full-face helmet 24/7 will reduce my chances of head injury to near zero, but I don't care - I am not gonna wear that damn thing. Would you?

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