The apotheosis of Farage?

We are on the edge of taking the most important decision this country has taken in a generation, and its consequences will last for the whole of this century. Longer, maybe

If we leave, and it is still a big if, one man will have been more the cause of it than any other, Nigel Farage.

It has been his political life's work. He single handedly built up a party from nothing, winning two by elections from the Tories, the European Elections (and then four million votes in the subsequent General Election). Without him Cameron would not have felt pressured to call a Referendum we can all see he never wanted to call.

It has been a career of seeming failure till now. His party is riven by divisions, and even his colleagues seem to hate him. He has been vilified in highly personal terms by his opponents and the media and called a racist stirrer of hate. He lost Thanet South because of mass tactical voting and an allegedly fraudulent campaign by the Tories (now being investigated by the police).

After the General Election defeat he was written off as finished and laughed at, pitied. In this campaign he was felt to be so unpopular he was sidelined. Told by the top Tories (who set up a rival organisation) that his assessment, that immigration was the key to winning was wrong. Yet having been hammered on the economy they changed tack to the argument he has always championed, immigration and the mood has changed.

He has never even been a Minister, yet if successful he will have had more impact on our country than many minor Prime Ministers. Never even been an MP even yet he is more famous than just about all of them.

It shows how peripheral political figures can have a seismic influence on events if they are eloquent and effective at reading the public mood.

It also show that if you really believe something you are respected (grudgingly admittedly) far more than all those politicians who argue cases for personal gain. Boris and Cameron have practically the same views on Europe. It is risible and pathetic that they are using the destiny of our great nation in their personal struggle to become Prime Minister (or remain PM).

His life's work may come to nothing, and we may vote in all the same. But even in defeat he will have had a huge impact, perhaps writing Labour off to electoral oblivion for the next few years.

You may not like him. He seems a thoroughly unpleasant man, actually. In fact you may hate him. You may disagree with everything he stands for. But we should salute the impact of a politician who lives to achieve things. Not office.

They are very rare.

Reply 1

username1204031

I could achieve great things too if I was very charismatic and willing to tell lots of lies to manufacture political turmoil. Donald Trump is very similar, but more extreme. People vote for them because they have no political experience, not in spite of it. They think that acting like an ******** somehow makes them more honest than everyone else. I think his success says more about the electorate than it says about him.

I actually like Farage. He seems like a decent person and I think I'd enjoy spending time with him. But I guess that's why he's so good at winning people over.

Reply 2

MildredMalone

Original post by JordanL_

I could achieve great things too if I was very charismatic and willing to tell lots of lies to manufacture political turmoil. Donald Trump is very similar, but more extreme.

What lies have they told?

Reply 3

generallee

Original post by JordanL_

My point was that people can see he is sincere in his beliefs. He is attacked for many many things, but never insincerity.

To the bolded point, what is your solution? Are you with Brecht?

The people are unpopular with the government? We need to dissolve them and elect another people?

Reply 4

caravaggio2

Let's see who's laughing on the 24th.
We certainly live in interesting times.😱

Reply 5

34908seikj

Original post by caravaggio2

Let's see who's laughing on the 24th.
We certainly live in interesting times.😱

Yes, i'm sure we'll be laughing at UKIP then, as well!

http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm

Reply 6

caravaggio2

Double post.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 7

generallee

If all that is true it makes his personal achievement all the greater.

It is far harder to run a small, ragtag party of oddballs and make a huge contribution to the national debate. Affect our very destiny as a country.

Far easier to do it when you take control of one of the main parties. Corbyn inherited a movement with a tradition of government, over two hundred MP's, councils up the country, hundreds of thousands of highly committed members. Money, resources, millions of voters, the full monty.

What impact is he now having on the biggest question of our time? What impact will he have on politics at all, apart from running his party into the ground?

As for no-one talking about Farage, that depends on which way the referendum goes. If we leave he will be in all the history books a hundred years hence. If not, just a footnote.

But then so will all our current politicians be forgotten apart from, Cameron and whoever succeeds him.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 8

generallee

Original post by 34908seikj

Yes, i'm sure we'll be laughing at UKIP then, as well!

http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm

If that poll was repeated at a General Election it would have a decisive impact. I don't know if you are of the Left, but UKIP would be keeping Labour out of power.

But that isn't the subject of the thread. With respect you are deviating from it. We are not discussing UKIP at the next GE but Farage's contribution as an individual politician.

If you don't agree with my thesis, why don't you agree? What is your case against it?

Reply 9

ODES_PDES

The time is indeed nigh

Reply 10

username1204031

Original post by generallee

I don't believe he is sincere. He's built his entire career on this single issue. He has every reason to lie.

Reply 11

Fullofsurprises

I think Farage has had a lot of luck. He's never really been subjected to the level of media scrutiny he should have been - if he had, it would have help up to public gaze a man with a long record of lies and evasions. He's a bit of a crook who appears to have helped himself regularly to UKIP cash in an unregulated way, for which he was never held accountable within his own party. He tells repeated fibs that are easily disproved. Yet he is regularly treated as 'the nice chap from UKIP' with constant appearances on the BBC, Sky, etc. The reason must be conspiracy - I think there's been an element where the media folk thought it was fun to mainline him because he tended to undermine Cameron/Osborne, but if so, the joke has backfired on them, as there aren't many Leavers in the TV companies.

He's really a five star creep who has learned to sound like a bluff, amiable man of the people on TV and radio but in reality has no interest whatever in the issues of ordinary people. His motivation from day one, like many of the senior Leavers, has been about the possible threat that the EU presents to the reactionary nature of the UK system and in particular, the deregulated and 'outside the law' status of London and its massive tax evasion industry. Farage is a City jock with Monday Club origins and a fascist streak who has taken some courses in folksiness and hit politics at the right moment when everyone was getting annoyed with the status quo.

Reply 12

Dez

I've always thought that Farage's greatest achievement is convincing people he's not a mainstream politician. He's "not like the others", he's "a man of the people".

Thing is, all of it is bluster. Farage spouts untruths and misleading facts just as much if not more than any other career politician. He comes from the same background. He follows exactly the same formula. Farage is exactly like the others.

Yet through a combination of having non-mainstream viewpoints and very little actual political power, suddenly he's the brave maverick standing up to the Establishment. Or at least that's how he's portrayed.

I dislike Farage but not because of his political standpoint, but because he's posing as something he's not. Because like nearly all politicians he's full of lies, and will simply gloss over or redirect away from any facts that do not fit his agenda. UKIP is really nothing more than Farage's PR department, and his greatest accomplishment is simply making himself important without actually needing to do any actual work. Is that worthy of respect?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 13

AccountingBabe

Farage seen something he didn't like which just so happened to be something a lot of people also didn't like but wasn't sure who to blame.

Let's face it... The U.K. Majority had no idea that the eu was even a political power in a major way.

Unfortunately the eu is undemocratic and unaccountable to the British people and as such we cannot go on with this any longer.

If the leavers are denied a Brexit I would put a hefty amount on a bet for UKIP to win next GE unless the Tory party split into separate parties.

Reply 14

generallee

Bumped to reflect Brexit, and his resignation.

What else is there to say than that it was the most spectacular, amazing, incredible, personal achievement?

He led a "people's army" that overthrew Cameron (and soon Osborne), split the Labour Party in two (still in process but it will happen) and turned the country upside down.

The full consequences are yet to unfold. But he has single handedly started a process that will shape this country's destiny for the rest of this whole century. He may even have helped destroy the EU itself.

Will he return or is this it? I suppose it depends on what happens next. It the Remainers succeed in overturning Brexit then he will return (unfortunately) to lead the counter revolution.

But hopefully we are too sensible as a nation for that, and will respect the people's will...

An extraordinary man.