The Student Room Group

More contact hours - what to do with them?

I often read on TSR that students don't have the contact hours with staff that they expect, be that for lectures, revision, one-to-one support etc. I've been working in a uni for a few months now and I'm wondering what is expected from an increase in these hours?

Lecturers at my uni have recently been complaining that they've held revision sessions for the summer exams and only a handful of students turned up - sometimes none. I've been sharing an office with five members of teaching staff since the start of the year. The same dozen students are regular visitors. Apart from that we rarely see the rest of the cohort, despite all staff having set hours each week for student one-to-ones, and most accepting random drop-in chats whenever possible.

Students on TSR - and at my uni - are complaining that they're not getting enough contact time. But when offered it at my uni, most don't seem inclined to use it - and yet will still complain in surveys that they don't get enough of it.

I'm interested in what people actually want from their contact time with staff. Is it a different type of communication or teaching? If so, what? How can unis make this better? Unis clearly need to change, but at the moment, mine can't get a clear steer from the students as to what it is they need, because the students don't seem to know and can only give vague answers about more contact time and better value for money. What would that be for you? What would you want?
Original post by Klix88
I often read on TSR that students don't have the contact hours with staff that they expect, be that for lectures, revision, one-to-one support etc. I've been working in a uni for a few months now and I'm wondering what is expected from an increase in these hours?

Lecturers at my uni have recently been complaining that they've held revision sessions for the summer exams and only a handful of students turned up - sometimes none. I've been sharing an office with five members of teaching staff since the start of the year. The same dozen students are regular visitors. Apart from that we rarely see the rest of the cohort, despite all staff having set hours each week for student one-to-ones, and most accepting random drop-in chats whenever possible.

Students on TSR - and at my uni - are complaining that they're not getting enough contact time. But when offered it at my uni, most don't seem inclined to use it - and yet will still complain in surveys that they don't get enough of it.

I'm interested in what people actually want from their contact time with staff. Is it a different type of communication or teaching? If so, what? How can unis make this better? Unis clearly need to change, but at the moment, mine can't get a clear steer from the students as to what it is they need, because the students don't seem to know and can only give vague answers about more contact time and better value for money. What would that be for you? What would you want?

I had 12 hours of contact time and was quite happy with that as for the most part, lectures dont suit my learning style anyway. I think maybe some students want more lectures or seminars for their money rather than anything else but i could be wrong.
Universities can never please everyone because everyone learns differently. If some people feel they need revision lectures and things, then surely the lecturers would rather that a handful of eager people turned up, rather than a whole class of people who are there because it is compulsory and couldn't give two hoots about being there?
Original post by Klix88
I often read on TSR that students don't have the contact hours with staff that they expect, be that for lectures, revision, one-to-one support etc. I've been working in a uni for a few months now and I'm wondering what is expected from an increase in these hours?

Lecturers at my uni have recently been complaining that they've held revision sessions for the summer exams and only a handful of students turned up - sometimes none. I've been sharing an office with five members of teaching staff since the start of the year. The same dozen students are regular visitors. Apart from that we rarely see the rest of the cohort, despite all staff having set hours each week for student one-to-ones, and most accepting random drop-in chats whenever possible.

Students on TSR - and at my uni - are complaining that they're not getting enough contact time. But when offered it at my uni, most don't seem inclined to use it - and yet will still complain in surveys that they don't get enough of it.

I'm interested in what people actually want from their contact time with staff. Is it a different type of communication or teaching? If so, what? How can unis make this better? Unis clearly need to change, but at the moment, mine can't get a clear steer from the students as to what it is they need, because the students don't seem to know and can only give vague answers about more contact time and better value for money. What would that be for you? What would you want?


I'm a history student at the University of Warwick, and I would love for a 1 hour and a half seminar instead of one hour, I feel sometimes it goes too quick (sometimes starts a tad late and we could benefit from a longer duration)- in 3rd year seminars are 2 hours long, why not apply 1 hour and a half to 2nd year?
Reply 4
Original post by Magnus Taylor
I'm a history student at the University of Warwick, and I would love for a 1 hour and a half seminar instead of one hour, I feel sometimes it goes too quick (sometimes starts a tad late and we could benefit from a longer duration)- in 3rd year seminars are 2 hours long, why not apply 1 hour and a half to 2nd year?


To be honest, that's quite a minor tweak. I would have thought it's the sort of request you should be able to raise via your Student Union. Many of my colleagues found seminars quite stressful - it's possible that the uni is just building you up gradually to the full two hours. It's definitely worth querying if you think your cohort generally feels the same way. The staff might be pleased that their students are so engaged and enthusiastic.
Reply 5
It's difficult because as it's been said, everyone has different learning styles but for me personally and for my course (engineering), more contact hours in the form of:

1) One-to-ones with my tutors to go over any problems/concepts I'm having difficulty with.
2) Tutorials with smaller groups where you could actually interact properly with the tutors/postgrads running the tutorials. My tutorials this year have been useless as the postgrads either had no idea when you asked questions or you had to wait ages as there were too many of us.

Revision lectures can be useful, especially if solutions to past papers are given but the two above I think would be more beneficial.
personally I never needed 1-1s so I wouldn't bother turning up to a lecturers 1-1 time just for a chat as it would be a waste for them, I always went to revision sessions and on the rare occasion I wasn't happy with my grade I did go to the slot for feedback

you're always going to get some students who can't be bothered, plenty don't attend a lot of lectures anyway

I would have liked more seminars as I think they were really good for gaining a deeper understanding of a subject and developing critical thinking skills, we had 3 hour long seminars a semester (usually only for 1 or 2 modules), we also did several modules where it really felt like we only scraped the surface and it was hardly a surprise when we only did 12-24 hours of teaching time over the semester! So I would have liked longer lectures so that we could go into more detail.

So yeah, I'm not bothered about 'help' per ce but I would have liked more subject specific teaching time
Original post by Klix88
I often read on TSR that students don't have the contact hours with staff that they expect, be that for lectures, revision, one-to-one support etc. I've been working in a uni for a few months now and I'm wondering what is expected from an increase in these hours?

Lecturers at my uni have recently been complaining that they've held revision sessions for the summer exams and only a handful of students turned up - sometimes none.
I've been sharing an office with five members of teaching staff since the start of the year. The same dozen students are regular visitors. Apart from that we rarely see the rest of the cohort,despite all staff having set hours each week for student one-to-ones, and most accepting random drop-in chats whenever possible.

Students on TSR - and at my uni - are complaining that they're not getting enough contact time. But when offered it at my uni, most don't seem inclined to use it - and yet will still complain in surveys that they don't get enough of it.

I'm interested in what people actually want from their contact time with staff. Is it a different type of communication or teaching? If so, what? How can unis make this better? Unis clearly need to change, but at the moment, mine can't get a clear steer from the students as to what it is they need, because the students don't seem to know and can only give vague answers about more contact time and better value for money. What would that be for you? What would you want?


Lecturers on my course complained that students weren't turning up to half the revision sessions as well. The reason was all the revision sessions were pretty much carbon copies of each other, the lecturers had clearly not talked amongst themselves to decide what they should be talking about and what would be redundant. As so they were pretty much a waste of time and not relevant to the course content itself. So yeah, I don't blame people for not turning up sometimes.

Very few people on my course go to see the staff either. And there is a reason for that for the most part, sure some students are just lazy or don't bother to ask questions. But many of my friends and people on my course have found going to the staff for help and advice to be useless. Often they refuse to help, even more often they are patronising and just say "you should know don't ask" and some are just down right rude to the students.

My course desperately needs more lab time, we do not get enough of it for a course that is largely based on laboratory skills and work. But we're not getting more and it is likely going to get worse as the years go on and they take more and more students per year. They no longer have enough space to accommodate us all for frequent lab use. As a result the students suffer.

I think more small group time with teaching staff would be great. On my course for instance there are often 200+ people in a lecture room. It makes engaging with the staff very difficult. But in the past we've had a couple of small group "seminars" of around 20 or so people were we could engage more with the material and do some more interactive learning.

lectures are for the most part just awful. You sit 200 people down in a room with a guy up front reading off the board for 2 hours and you're going to get students barely engaging.

I realise university contains a lot more independent working and learning, but what contact time students do have may as well be useful and engaging. Otherwise what's the point in turning up at all? Especially when you have lecturers who read the slides word for word, that's one of the big reasons students don't turn up to some lectures. They can just read it at home and if they have any questions on the content email the lecturers (which we often get asked to do in lectures anyway because they don't have time to answer questions there and then).


Anyway that's just my perspective from my course at my uni (biomed), other courses and unis I'm sure vary a lot.
(edited 7 years ago)
Labs, give us hands on stuff where we put theory into practice and where we're required to keep up with the lectures.
Reply 9
I think students just like complaining.

Take unistats site, my law course has a decent score but 'feedback' is lower. I still have no clue why, yes some staff as harder to get hold of, but they're always around to ask about coursework, formative assessments etc during office hours or email.
And as you mentioned, the revision sessions and exam time sessions are poorly attended, and formatives aren't done by everyone.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Klix88
I often read on TSR that students don't have the contact hours with staff that they expect, be that for lectures, revision, one-to-one support etc. I've been working in a uni for a few months now and I'm wondering what is expected from an increase in these hours?

Lecturers at my uni have recently been complaining that they've held revision sessions for the summer exams and only a handful of students turned up - sometimes none. I've been sharing an office with five members of teaching staff since the start of the year. The same dozen students are regular visitors. Apart from that we rarely see the rest of the cohort, despite all staff having set hours each week for student one-to-ones, and most accepting random drop-in chats whenever possible.

Students on TSR - and at my uni - are complaining that they're not getting enough contact time. But when offered it at my uni, most don't seem inclined to use it - and yet will still complain in surveys that they don't get enough of it.

I'm interested in what people actually want from their contact time with staff. Is it a different type of communication or teaching? If so, what? How can unis make this better? Unis clearly need to change, but at the moment, mine can't get a clear steer from the students as to what it is they need, because the students don't seem to know and can only give vague answers about more contact time and better value for money. What would that be for you? What would you want?


I would ask for more tutorials (say 2 per week) where there is preset questions and 2-4 students go through them with 1 staff member (I had this is first year but this stops in year 2 onwards), as I found these very very useful

With regards to revision sessions, a fair few students dont go as they prefer to go over content at their own pace I think (revisions sessions going through a pass paper are very useful though)

As for optional office hours, with some lecturers I found they couldnt be bothered to spend their time going through something with you (my first angular mechanics lecturer for example) so this put me off a lot in regards to going to them.

Other than the lack of tutorials after 1st year I really like the current system at my uni, I think a fair few of the students that complain and give vague solutions to what they want are the ones that dont want to put the work in as much and are looking for that 'tell me whats on the exam so I can just cover that' type of contact hour
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Klix88

I'm interested in what people actually want from their contact time with staff. Is it a different type of communication or teaching? If so, what? How can unis make this better? Unis clearly need to change, but at the moment, mine can't get a clear steer from the students as to what it is they need, because the students don't seem to know and can only give vague answers about more contact time and better value for money. What would that be for you? What would you want?


I can only echo your points above.

In my experience as a lecturer, the vast majority will not come to seminars or office hours or do the formative tests I set. And then they complain about not getting enough contact time and feedback!

I suspect what they would like is lots of small group teaching with set questions that count every few weeks (and no exam at the end). So basically like school with modular exams. I don't think that's good at university level though.

But I would also love to hear students articulate what they would like.
I think when people complain about contact hours, it's the lectures, I guess what they'd see as 'compulsory'. Perhaps because they find that sometimes lectures feel rushed, and so having more contact hours in the form of lectures, they'd be able to go through things more slowly, and perhaps in a bit more detail.
Original post by chazwomaq
I can only echo your points above.

In my experience as a lecturer, the vast majority will not come to seminars or office hours or do the formative tests I set. And then they complain about not getting enough contact time and feedback!

I suspect what they would like is lots of small group teaching with set questions that count every few weeks (and no exam at the end). So basically like school with modular exams. I don't think that's good at university level though.

But I would also love to hear students articulate what they would like.


I think some of the issues with office hours are that a fair few of the lecturers I went to see just didnt seem to want to spend the time explaining the problem to me (I always email my specific issue ahead and explain I have tried to use the recommended textbook already so they know what my issue is a 1-2 days before the office hour)

I think seminars are great :biggrin: its much smaller than a workshop at my uni meaning its alot easier to get feedback on questions and it means concepts can be explained more clearly. A issue I noticed at my uni is the only people that attend the seminars are the ones that actually do really well but most of my friends think 'Its not the right time for me to do that' or 'I havent done the pre set questions so theres no point in going' etc

Smaller tutorial groups would be great (like at oxbridge I guess) as I found it first year its allowed me to not only understand individual concepts and bits of maths but how they link to other areas of physics (which I found improved my understanding even more)

I totally agree with your second paragraph though, I think most of the students that ask for that are the ones that want the 'I just want to spend as little time on this as possible' style of learning.

So the only things for me could be improved for me would be small group tutorials in later years (1-2 per week) and for some lecturers to spend more time trying to help the student rather than just trying get them out the door in office hours (though obviously this doesnt happen for all lecturers office hours and comes down to individual lecturers)
Original post by madmadmax321
I think some of the issues with office hours are that a fair few of the lecturers I went to see just didnt seem to want to spend the time explaining the problem to me (I always email my specific issue ahead and explain I have tried to use the recommended textbook already so they know what my issue is a 1-2 days before the office hour)


To all students reading the above: that is the perfect way to attend an office hour. Shame on the lecturers who wouldn't help you. I only wish my students would do the same!


Smaller tutorial groups would be great (like at oxbridge I guess) as I found it first year its allowed me to not only understand individual concepts and bits of maths but how they link to other areas of physics (which I found improved my understanding even more)


Yes, the Oxbridge tutorial system is fantastic. Funnily enough, my university has small group teaching of 6-8 students once per week, but we don't use them to discuss technical stuff they're learning in lectures, just more general "soft skills". :facepalm: Such a wasted opportunity.

Here's an idea some students might like to try. Find 2 or 3 friends and decide on some topics you'd like help with. Then e-mail the lecturer with the topics in advance for an office hour. Even better if you bring some questions you've tried to answer so you can show your working. Then you get a free Oxbridge style tutorial!
when I was at university I found I learned the most in small group revision sessions a group of us organised ourselves.

We sat down for half an hour to go through the module spec and past papers to identify which topics were likely to be on the exams, dished those topics up between us and then went away for a week to pull together the notes, papers, references etc on those topics and write an "ideal" essay answer (refining 4 pages of A4 down to 2 (or 1 in note form)) for that topic (in a way that was broad enough to cover a lot of different questions on the same topic with a bit of tweaking).

Then we got back together and *taught* each other the ideal essay we'd put together (including any mnemonics for remembering key points or structure or logical flow). The rest of the group would listen, ask questions and add in comments/improvements to end up with a bunch of perfect revision materials - 1/4 of which you'd know absolutely inside out and the other 3/4 were presented in a way that was easy to work from and remember.

It meant that we were revising by talking about our subjects, and by listening to other people, and by writing and by reading...which was much more effective for me than just reading.

--------------------

Just generally I think what seems lacking from a lot of university work is the opportunity to get feedback on coursework while it is in progress. There's a tendency to send students off to produce a piece of work in isolation, submit and then get feedback after the fact. Having an interim stage for all coursework to have a draft marked/read through in office hours would be brilliant for helping people who are struggling to move up to the next level.

Even if that was just peer support/feedback with supervision from the academic staff that would be a real boost (although there's a risk it would give an extra opportunity for plagiarism so it might need to be managed somehow with drafts submitted in some way) but then learning how to work collaboratively without cheating is something that should be developed at university IMO - it's certainly important in the real world.

Likewise having examples of marked work at different levels from previous years available so that students are clearer about what a first *looks* like. I know some universities and some lecturers do this but it'd be good if it was recognised as best practice and encouraged.
Original post by PQ


Likewise having examples of marked work at different levels from previous years available so that students are clearer about what a first *looks* like. I know some universities and some lecturers do this but it'd be good if it was recognised as best practice and encouraged.


So much this. What lecturers are looking for in a first class essay is often kind of mysterious difficult to pin down. When we started our dissertations our dissertation supervisor sat down and handed out five or six example dissertations then asked us to guess what grade each one got. That was a really helpful exercise. :beard:
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
So much this. What lecturers are looking for in a first class essay is often kind of mysterious difficult to pin down. When we started our dissertations our dissertation supervisor sat down and handed out five or six example dissertations then asked us to guess what grade each one got. That was a really helpful exercise. :beard:

There's nothing like sitting on the other side of the desk for improving your understanding of things IME.

That's why I'm such a fan of peer assessment/support/feedback etc....you learn from both giving and receiving :yes:

I know there's been some lecturers who have played about with peer marking and also self marking...it's easy to miss the point completely if people approach it with the wrong mindset though :frown:
Original post by PQ
when I was at university I found I learned the most in small group revision sessions a group of us organised ourselves.

We sat down for half an hour to go through the module spec and past papers to identify which topics were likely to be on the exams, dished those topics up between us and then went away for a week to pull together the notes, papers, references etc on those topics and write an "ideal" essay answer (refining 4 pages of A4 down to 2 (or 1 in note form)) for that topic (in a way that was broad enough to cover a lot of different questions on the same topic with a bit of tweaking).

Then we got back together and *taught* each other the ideal essay we'd put together (including any mnemonics for remembering key points or structure or logical flow). The rest of the group would listen, ask questions and add in comments/improvements to end up with a bunch of perfect revision materials - 1/4 of which you'd know absolutely inside out and the other 3/4 were presented in a way that was easy to work from and remember.

It meant that we were revising by talking about our subjects, and by listening to other people, and by writing and by reading...which was much more effective for me than just reading.

--------------------

Just generally I think what seems lacking from a lot of university work is the opportunity to get feedback on coursework while it is in progress. There's a tendency to send students off to produce a piece of work in isolation, submit and then get feedback after the fact. Having an interim stage for all coursework to have a draft marked/read through in office hours would be brilliant for helping people who are struggling to move up to the next level.

Even if that was just peer support/feedback with supervision from the academic staff that would be a real boost (although there's a risk it would give an extra opportunity for plagiarism so it might need to be managed somehow with drafts submitted in some way) but then learning how to work collaboratively without cheating is something that should be developed at university IMO - it's certainly important in the real world.

Likewise having examples of marked work at different levels from previous years available so that students are clearer about what a first *looks* like. I know some universities and some lecturers do this but it'd be good if it was recognised as best practice and encouraged.


Would have loved this- I generally do better when I can see what a good answer looks like in practice, not be given feedback saying my work needs to be more detailed. Only got to see past work for my Masters dissertation.

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