Latest You Gov poll shows 7% majority for Leave

Open a Spread Betting account (CMC and IG are both good) and you'll soon fine out.

Keep your books on the "efficient market hypothesis" well to hand because you'll need those.

They'll be really useful...

I guess your economic points all come down to whether or not the EU provides a net economic benefit. Heck, if it didn't I'm not sure there would be many people on the Remain side of the campaign! The markets, credible financial institutions, business leaders, and hundreds of economists say that it does. Any conjecture about being 'stronger economically' outside the EU is highly presumptuous. We know at the moment, that we are stronger economically today, inside the EU, versus on June 25th, if we left.

With regards to democracy, I think this comes down entirely to immigration for the ordinary person. Why? Because no Joe Bloggs Leaver can tell you which EU policies directly harm him as a consumer. The reality is that most help him, with safety etc. Since I'm fine with the current state of immigration given it has to be weighed up against the economy, that's why I'm on the remain side.

Of course, the politicians want greater democracy so they can set laws themselves, but I couldn't care less. The current set of laws for consumers works perfectly fine for me.

And yet you allude to it being just that, as do many others.

I guess your economic points all come down to whether or not the EU provides a net economic benefit. Heck, if it didn't I'm not sure there would be many people on the Remain side of the campaign! The markets, credible financial institutions, business leaders, and hundreds of economists say that it does. Any conjecture about being 'stronger economically' outside the EU is highly presumptuous. We know at the moment, that we are stronger economically today, inside the EU, versus on June 25th, if we left.

With regards to democracy, I think this comes down entirely to immigration for the ordinary person. Why? Because no Joe Bloggs Leaver can tell you which EU policies directly harm him as a consumer. The reality is that most help him, with safety etc. Since I'm fine with the current state of immigration given it has to be weighed up against the economy, that's why I'm on the remain side.

Of course, the politicians want greater democracy so they can set laws themselves, but I couldn't care less. The current set of laws for consumers works perfectly fine for me.

I think immigration can be a bit of a sidetrack though. Out of the Leave voters I know personally and have spoken to:

One is voting because she thinks it's unfair the EU is discriminating in favour of European workers and against people from Africa and elsewhere.
One is voting because she voted in last time believing the EU was just a free trade deal, and thinks she was misled.
One is voting because he wants a political shake-up, he's concerned about T-TIP taking over, and he thinks the EU's got too much power.

Out of those three only one cares about immigration, and not for the reasons you might think.

Change of course causes uncertainty, but change is short-term, and we'll recover a stronger economy and more principled country.

Well I've clarified it for you that I don't think that.

The issues are that the counter-arguments "unelected House of Lords" and "unelected monarchy & process of Royal Assent" are not valid/invalid.

The House of Lords is a revision chamber that can only delay non-finance-based legislation; not a priority at the moment.
Royal Assent has a history of being just a formality; it hasn't not been given/granted since like 1708. (Can't remember exact date [year.])

Can you provide a link for the investment banks saying it's not a problem? Or a news article or something to that effect?

Except of course there's no evidence at all that the economy with be stronger nor is there any good reason to believe that British politics will ever be more 'principled' than the EU.

But long-term how can you be certain either way?

You can call both of our stuff conjecture, but you think you're right, and I think I'm right.

(There might be a link tax...)

Fair enough. Sounds like those people have genuine arguments, although the second one is obviously a little shallow - have to deal with the merits/demerits at present rather than past principles.

I don't think it's wrong to say that the a significant proportion of Leave voters care quite a lot about the state of immigration.

This is so ironic. You allow explanations, clarifications, and counter arguments to the undemocratic aspects of the UK, and yet with the EU it's a one-way street. E.g. that MEPs have to vote something through and they are elected is completely irrelevant, is it? Because muh council wasn't elected. Well it was, each member states appoints a member of their choosing, don't like yours, vote for a different party so they can appoint someone else.

I won't argue with someone who goes about it with false information, blindness, and double standards.

Anyway, at the end of the day, you are just a selfish nationalist. I almost want you to leave just so we are rid of people like you, except that would be unfair to all those who can actually think, who aren't into isolationism.

Ok thanks, so that's not an example. You may be a little confused due to terminology.

The view was echoed by their counterparts at JP Morgan, who indicated the impact of a Brexit would be harsher on European companies than it would be on British firms. "Brexit remains a clear concern, but the pound is a natural hedge for UK stocks, with 72% of sales derived from abroad," they said.

Investment banks use outperform to represent a better performance versus peers, but in reality, outperform can apply to UK equities declining say 10% and European equities declining 20%. That's a very negative scenario, as they later make clear, but the fact we have our own currency may lessen the blow.

That's strictly not a case for economic benefits to be derived from outside the EU, or the investment bank saying that we're fine if we leave. You will struggle to find any investment bank who will say that.

Someone hasn't read the entire article

Except of course there's no evidence at all that the economy with be stronger nor is there any good reason to believe that British politics will ever be more 'principled' than the EU.

We did OK governing ourselves in the thousand years between 1066 and 1971.

There were a few ups and downs obviously, but over the period we managed to become the first nation in the world to industrialise, making us the richest country on earth, with the largest Empire the world had ever seen.

So I think we have it in us to govern ourselves pretty well and prosper economically without instruction from a drunken Jean Claude Juncker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

Don't you?

We did OK governing ourselves in the thousand years between 1066 and 1971.

There were a few ups and downs obviously, but over the period we managed to become the first nation in the world to industrialise, making us the richest country on earth, with the largest Empire the world had ever seen.

So I think we have it in us to govern ourselves pretty well and prosper economically without instruction from a drunken Jean Claude Juncker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

Don't you?

This doesn't remove the fact that the UK's best interests can be vetoed though... We can basically be shouted down and forced into accepting legislation that's going to benefit another country at our expense.

For the record I don't think the UK is democratic either.

Leave: 46% (+3)Remain: 39% (-3)Don’t Know: 11% (nc)Would Not Vote: 4% (nc)

Source: Guido Fawkes website

Yesssss!! We can really do this guys!