Owen Jones embarrasses himself on Sky News debate about Orlando

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I'm so confused, what exactly is the point the hosts are trying to make? Owen is saying it was a homophobic attack but the hosts are saying it was just a normal terrorist attack?

Pretty much. Despite the fact it was carried out by a homophobe and targeted specifically at gay people.

Reply 81

Joep95

Original post by Bornblue

That's all hearsay. Where is the proof that this attack was coordinated and organised by IS?

What does 'has ties' mean? Be specific.

The only 'link' to Isis is a comment of support to the police after he butchered these people, he was a very disturbed individual.

Again though, you're trying to make out that this wasn't treacle a homophobic attack.

I have said it was homophobic but I have also commented on what you want to ignore, the Islamist side of this attack, yes his previous actions are irrelevant.

So you think there is no relation to an attack in the name of Isis and Isis calling for supporters to attack?

His ties include his self radicalisation online watching Isis videos, links to a suicide bomber and his statements.

Reply 82

bj27

This interview is just shocking.

I'd be pretty pissed off since it isn't seen as a homophobic attack(which it clearly is) and the guy being seen as a lunatic(just like how when a white guy crashes a plane he's a lunatic and when a muslim man does it he's a terrorist) but yeah the reactions are pretty poor. I'd have said my point and just carried on with the conversation though.

Reply 83

Grand High Witch

Original post by Bornblue

I'm not ignoring the Islamist element.
But to suggest this was an attack primarily on the west as opposed to a homophobic attack specifically targeted at gay people is ludicrous. It was primarily a homophobic attack.

what you're trying to do is make out that it wasn't really primarily homophobic.

The problem when people say "it was purely a homophobic attack" is that it pigeonholes it into the same broad category as Kim Davis and the cake controversy and fails to address the specific, deep rooted problem both the West and the Middle East have with Islamist homophobia, which is why I think it should be described as Islamist homophobia or at least recognised that it is homophobia inspired by ISIS-style Islamism.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 84

khaleesi98

Nah he did the right thing. I would have liked him to have stayed because he had some really important things to say, but there was no point if the other two were just going to talk over him.

Original post by Proximo

I'm so confused, what exactly is the point the hosts are trying to make? Owen is saying it was a homophobic attack but the hosts are saying it was just a normal terrorist attack?

^^ this pretty much sums it up

Also, I don't think this has been posted, but it's definitely worth reading... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/sky-news-homophobia-orlando-sexuality

Reply 85

bj27

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they're not homophobic, the self-hating Jew is a famous stereotype but it's present in any marginalised group. He may have been gay but that doesn't mean he can't have opposed homosexuality and agreed with what IS stand for.

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But then when a black guy shoots up other black guys in an area full of black people is he self hating? Is it xenophobic what he's doing or is it just gang warfare/mental instability?

Interesting if the guy is gay though but if he was gay he didn't have to tell ISIS that he was gay if he is pledging allegiance to them anyway.

Reply 86

username878267

Original post by Grand High Witch

Homophobia is homophobia, racism is racism
Etc.

It was an attack carried out on the gay community.

I wouldn't limit this to IS. Saudis Arabia execute gay people yet we support them. Let's have consistent outrage.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 87

username878267

Original post by joecphillips

It was a homophobic attack, not a general attack on the west. It's that simple.

Reply 88

Joep95

Original post by Bornblue

It was a homophobic attack, not a general attack on the west. It's that simple.

So you want to ignore the rest of the motivation so you can say how bad gays have it?

You are seriously over simplifying it and really saying oh it's just a homophobic attack doesn't help anyone

Reply 89

Under Achiever

I think the point he was trying to make is that by labelling the attacker as a "lunatic," you are essentially placing him in a similar bracket to the mentally ill.

Reply 90

CGSW

nobody 'owns' this attack - but it directly affects the LGBT community and by refusing to classify this as a hate crime against LGBT I can totally understand why he walked off - I would have.

* if you're not LGBT it is probably a bit harder to understand the personal nature of this attack, although obviously it affects all of us in very hard-hitting and different ways

Reply 91

difeo

Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes

I missed the part where he "embarrassed himself"...

They undermined the fact that it was a homophobic attack and everything they said was speculation, I understand Owen's frustrations.

Maybe the part where he said you can't possibly understand if you're not gay or the snide little comments, and who storms off a TV debate because someone disagrees with you lmao

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 92

champ_mc99

Original post by joecphillips

So you want to ignore the rest of the motivation so you can say how bad gays have it?

You are seriously over simplifying it and really saying oh it's just a homophobic attack doesn't help anyone

That's pretty much it though. It was an attack on the LGBT community influenced by the homophobic ideology of radical Islam (i.e. ISIS).

The guy pledged allegiance to ISIS and his dad said he also hated gay people. He could have killed any non-Muslim Westerner, regardless of sexuality, but decided to target a gay club.

Reply 93

Snufkin

Universities Forum Helper

I despair that so many otherwise sensible people support Jones. It's as though everyone has decided not to think. Anyone who watches that clip without bias will see the other two panellists did nothing wrong.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 94

Joep95

Original post by champ_mc99

I have admitted multiple times the attack was homophobic, it was also caused by radical Islam I believe it needs to be said that this was both.

To ignore either part is a bad position to take as it doesn't fully describe what has happened.

Reply 95

champ_mc99

Original post by joecphillips

Oh sorry. I misinterpreted and thought you didn't acknowledge it was a homophobic attack. But yeah I agree.

Reply 96

Under Achiever

This attacker does not represent Islam and the vast majority of Muslims.

He represents a minority of psychopaths, who are currently misusing Islam as a justification for their actions.

Psychopaths exist in every walk of life, he and others like him are no different to troubled men from other backgrounds?

If ISIS represents the whole of Islam, do the KKK represent the whole of Christianity?

Reply 97

xylas

3:08-3:12

Owen: "I'm being yelled at, this is incredible..."
Julia: "You don't stop talking so we have to"

That woman is a piece of work, that's for sure... Not gonna even comment on her little bit at the end.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 98

Zayn is Bae

Original post by difeo

Maybe the part where he said you can't possibly understand if you're not gay or the snide little comments, and who storms off a TV debate because someone disagrees with you lmao

Funnily enough if this was any other member of society defending their group (e.g a Jew after an anti-semitic attack or a black man after a racial hatred crime) who acted like a biatch people would be here criticising them, the gays get a free pass to whine about whatever they want and all logic flies out the window

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