Latest You Gov poll shows 7% majority for Leave

Personally, immigration isn't my chief concern anyway, just responding to your immigration "facts" which are irrelevant and bias.

Also, a graph showing the population of the eurozone is very selective (and dare I say bias), what about the other 9 EU countries?

Your cartoon doesn't say where the parachutists are going to land. The Swamp of Prolonged Recession.

Thanks for spotting it was only Eurozone - I hadn't noticed that.

So here's total Europe with Africa for comparison. Oh look, total Europe is also declining.

That's good to hear. So your main concern is what?

Right, so because the population of one group where you control immigration from is growing, but the one where you can't control immigration from is falling, it means that controlling both will...what are you even trying to say?

You do realise that the population growth of the Commonwealth and Africa is absolutely irrelevant?

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Right, so because the population of one group where you control immigration from is growing, but the one where you can't control immigration from is falling, it means that controlling both will...what are you even trying to say?

You do realise that the population growth of the Commonwealth and Africa is absolutely irrelevant?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Clearly it isn't remotely irrelevant. Africa has burgeoning population growth and therefore that, coupled with poverty, war and disastrous effects of climate change in many areas, are going inevitably to create huge northward migration pressures to Europe and (inevitably) the UK.

Good question, and not simple to answer. I question the logic and sense of tying together the economies and policies of very different countries, who are at different stages in development, have different ideologies and quite simply have nothing in common but geography. Countries have been (and will continue to be) added into the EU based on political BS rather than the strength of their economy and what the EU would gain. I believe the growth of the EU is once again, unsustainable, as it gets bigger it contributes less and less to the worlds economy (see Lord JCBs letter to his employees).

Simply put, I believe (with my limited knowledge, but lets be honest, the government haven't helped that knowledge) it is a dying institution, which is getting worse over time, provides no perks of being a member unless you are a less developed country yourself, and is hindering our recovery from the recession.

The reason these heads of states and business leaders are essentially threatening us to stay (which makes me want to leave more) is because we are a key player in holding up the EU, but I believe that we are doing this to our detriment, and ultimately, to the detriment of those we are propping up also.

Good question, and not simple to answer. I question the logic and sense of tying together the economies and policies of very different countries, who are at different stages in development, have different ideologies and quite simply have nothing in common but geography. Countries have been (and will continue to be) added into the EU based on political BS rather than the strength of their economy and what the EU would gain. I believe the growth of the EU is once again, unsustainable, as it gets bigger it contributes less and less to the worlds economy (see Lord JCBs letter to his employees).

Simply put, I believe (with my limited knowledge, but lets be honest, the government haven't helped that knowledge) it is a dying institution, which is getting worse over time, provides no perks of being a member unless you are a less developed country yourself, and is hindering our recovery from the recession.

The reason these heads of states and business leaders are essentially threatening us to stay (which makes me want to leave more) is because we are a key player in holding up the EU, but I believe that we are doing this to our detriment, and ultimately, to the detriment of those we are propping up also.

I appreciate the considered answer. Let me have a think and I'll get back to you later

I'm pretty sure a full-blown EU collapse over the next 10 years if that is a possibility, is not what anyone, anywhere in the world wants. Heck, the economic consequences could be catastrophic.

In that circumstance, the UK leaving could be considered akin to removing a vital Jenga block.

I'm pretty sure a full-blown EU collapse over the next 10 years if that is a possibility, is not what anyone, anywhere in the world wants. Heck, the economic consequences could be catastrophic.

In that circumstance, the UK leaving could be considered akin to removing a vital Jenga block.

You forget the eurozone crisis is still ongoing

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I'm pretty sure a full-blown EU collapse over the next 10 years if that is a possibility, is not what anyone, anywhere in the world wants. Heck, the economic consequences could be catastrophic.

In that circumstance, the UK leaving could be considered akin to removing a vital Jenga block.

I don't suppose you or any of the (other) learned people on here could explain in two sentences why the collapse of the EU over the next 10 years could have catastrophic consequences ?

Or failing that,what constitutes catastrophic?

Major political, social and economic disruption whilst, what, 28 countries try to negotiate trade and political deals, and patch together new frameworks as the old frameworks previously bound together by decades of the work in the EU are invalid/disregarded. Think uncertainty, but on a huge scale.

EDIT: For your last point. Giving a better deal would equally set a precedent whereby other countries in the EU would start to think they should get a better deal. Potentially leads to a similar sort of outcome.

Yes, the more likely Leave goes through, the more turbulent the markets are becoming and the more evident the economic impact is going to be. Over £110bn wiped off the Uk markets alone over the past week when Remain odds have shortened from 70% to 57%, and the markets starting to tank.

Still who cares right.... right?

Major political, social and economic disruption whilst, what, 28 countries try to negotiate trade and political deals, and patch together new frameworks as the old frameworks previously bound together by decades of the work in the EU are invalid/disregarded. Think uncertainty, but on a huge scale.

EDIT: For your last point. Giving a better deal would equally set a precedent whereby other countries in the EU would start to think they should get a better deal. Potentially leads to a similar sort of outcome.