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Remainers' Project Fear. "End of civilisation with Brexit'

Tusk says Brexit will 'end our civilisation'. I think Brexit would end his rich salary as a EU technocrat LOL

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I am definitely voting to stay but that is ridiculous. But then I look at Brexit and see Boris, Gove (the destroyer of the education system) and Farrage. Hmmm.
To me, this isnt about putting fear. Its about making Britain great again by removing itself from the horrible control of the EU's increasing dictatorship. We dont even know the names of the people who control the EU and make the choices. We need out.
Original post by ByEeek
I am definitely voting to stay but that is ridiculous. But then I look at Brexit and see Boris, Gove (the destroyer of the education system) and Farrage. Hmmm.


How about Labour. Blair wanted the UK to join the Euro.We would be poorer if we were in.
Original post by RoyalMarine
How about Labour. Blair wanted the UK to join the Euro.We would be poorer if we were in.


That is something we will never know, so there is no point speculating. So I am not quite sure what your point is.

Anyway - Blair did a load of great stuff if you take away the Iraq war. He reduced NHS waiting times which at the time were anything from 9 - 18 months to 18 weeks (the current target now being missed again), he reduced class sizes to 30 or less, made the Bank of England independent and homelessness on the streets all but disappeared, not to mention the disability discrimination legislation. The Tories have been doing very well at reversing these improvements over the last 6 years.
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Original post by RoyalMarine
Tusk says Brexit will 'end our civilisation'. I think Brexit would end his rich salary as a EU technocrat LOL


Leaving will cause a tsunami to strike off the coast of Kent. Then we will be invaded by Aliens because we have entered the recession to end all recessions and we no longer have any allies in the world. The UN security council then kicks us out and launches Nukes to end the alien invasion. UK ceases to exist.

Vote Leave if you are clever enough to not believe scaremongering rubbish!
Original post by ByEeek
That is something we will never know, so there is no point speculating. So I am not quite sure what your point is.

Anyway - Blair did a load of great stuff if you take away the Iraq war. He reduced NHS waiting times which at the time were anything from 9 - 18 months to 18 weeks (the current target now being missed again), he reduced class sizes to 30 or less, made the Bank of England independent and homelessness on the streets all but disappeared, not to mention the disability discrimination legislation. The Tories have been doing very well at reversing these improvements over the last 6 years.


What speculation?It's facts,all EU countries with the Euro are now poorer besides Germany.
Original post by sebby491
Leaving will cause a tsunami to strike off the coast of Kent. Then we will be invaded by Aliens because we have entered the recession to end all recessions and we no longer have any allies in the world. The UN security council then kicks us out and launches Nukes to end the alien invasion. UK ceases to exist.

Vote Leave if you are clever enough to not believe scaremongering rubbish!


Odds are we would be the France rather than the Germany. Is it not striking that it's taken nearly a decade for the eurozone to grow above pretend recession levels, it took Britain and America I think it was 4 years, Germany slightly behind with the Euro being designed for them.

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Original post by sebby491

Vote Leave if you are clever enough to not believe scaremongering rubbish!


Wrong, vote leave if you think that is best for the uk
This is something on which smart, rational people can disagree. That sort of attitude is insulting the people you want to convert. Both sides have made ridiculous claims, and as a remain voter I think that the remain campaign are being idiots, but so are leave.
Original post by CuriosityKTMC
Wrong, vote leave if you think that is best for the uk
This is something on which smart, rational people can disagree. That sort of attitude is insulting the people you want to convert. Both sides have made ridiculous claims, and as a remain voter I think that the remain campaign are being idiots, but so are leave.


Very good points
According to Bremainers, Brexit = end of civilisation

According to Brexiters, Bremain = end of civilisation

Either way, we're looking at an Apocalypse
Original post by RoyalMarine
What speculation?It's facts,all EU countries with the Euro are now poorer besides Germany.


You are making the correlation, causation mistake. So is the EU responsible for Germany's success or Greece's decline, or neither? I would say - it is too complicated. Maybe Germany's success was the result of German policy to invest in manufacturing and Greece's failure was to borrow money they couldn't afford in order to do things like host the Olympics etc? Nothing to do with the EU although Greece did kind of slip under the net.
Original post by ByEeek
You are making the correlation, causation mistake. So is the EU responsible for Germany's success or Greece's decline, or neither? I would say - it is too complicated. Maybe Germany's success was the result of German policy to invest in manufacturing and Greece's failure was to borrow money they couldn't afford in order to do things like host the Olympics etc? Nothing to do with the EU although Greece did kind of slip under the net.


Both Germany's success and Greece's decline. The system is ultimately made to benefit the Germans (why else would they keep bailing out Greece), hence benefits Germany, but then Greece's decline for trying to force them to do the complete opposite of what they should be doing because some of the rules (which they haven't yet ignored, unlike article 125) say they have to do so.

Additionally, Greece should never have been allowed in the eurozone, but then again, if it leads to an even weaker euro git benefits Germany even more.

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Original post by ByEeek
You are making the correlation, causation mistake. So is the EU responsible for Germany's success or Greece's decline, or neither? I would say - it is too complicated. Maybe Germany's success was the result of German policy to invest in manufacturing and Greece's failure was to borrow money they couldn't afford in order to do things like host the Olympics etc? Nothing to do with the EU although Greece did kind of slip under the net.


The EU is responsible for Germany's success because the EEC structure was the only structure under which Germany was allowed to succeed. The other 5 nations were (eventually in the case of Italy) Germany's enemies in WWII. These countries would not have permitted the German economy to develop as it was allowed to do without a measure of economic control over it. The EEC was created to be run by the French and paid for by the Germans.

Many of the EU's problems have been caused by the fact that the expansion of the EU has been at the expense of French power over it.

Greece was encouraged to fiddle its figures on the implied promise that the Euro nations would see it right. The Germans, having sold the Greeks a staggering number of Porsches, welshed on that implied promise.
Original post by Jammy Duel
Both Germany's success and Greece's decline. The system is ultimately made to benefit the Germans (why else would they keep bailing out Greece), .

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Do you have any evidence for that. Germany only has about 10 more MEPs than us. They hardly have the ability to vote in Germancentric policy. And haven't we bailed out Greece and Ireland? After all, it is not in our interests to see Greece default either.
Original post by ByEeek
Do you have any evidence for that. Germany only has about 10 more MEPs than us. They hardly have the ability to vote in Germancentric policy. And haven't we bailed out Greece and Ireland? After all, it is not in our interests to see Greece default either.

The EU is not democratic. The parliament doesn't have any relevant power,it's the Commission who makes all the rules and they aren't elected by anyone. They're there named by governments and mainly by Germany. Tusk Djssolbleum Schulze Juncker are all puppets
Original post by ByEeek
Do you have any evidence for that. Germany only has about 10 more MEPs than us. They hardly have the ability to vote in Germancentric policy. And haven't we bailed out Greece and Ireland? After all, it is not in our interests to see Greece default either.


23 more MEPs actually...

And if Greece hasn't been bailed out then how come there is talk of a FOURTH bailout? and what would this be then?

There is also power beyond the number of MEPs
Original post by RoyalMarine
The EU is not democratic. The parliament doesn't have any relevant power,it's the Commission who makes all the rules and they aren't elected by anyone. They're there named by governments and mainly by Germany. Tusk Djssolbleum Schulze Juncker are all puppets


Correction. The EU parliament has total power. The MPs that you and I vote for ratify laws and proposals offered by the commission who are made up of people selected by our own elected government.

By contrast, we have a government of MPs who are elected by a rather undemocratic first-past-the-post system meaning that if you live in a safe seat, you have no say in your MP. Your vote is wasted. The Prime Minster is the leader of a party who is elected by the party, not the electorate, and he or she chooses their government from any MPs they like. They can propose laws at will. No one else has a say. The laws then pass through committees not elected by the electorate before being signed off by the House of Lords (unelected) and finally the given Royal Ascent by our unelected head of state.

So just exactly what is it you don't like about the EU with regard to democracy? If democracy is your beef, why not start a bit closer to home?
Original post by ByEeek
Correction. The EU parliament has total power. The MPs that you and I vote for ratify laws and proposals offered by the commission who are made up of people selected by our own elected government.

By contrast, we have a government of MPs who are elected by a rather undemocratic first-past-the-post system meaning that if you live in a safe seat, you have no say in your MP. Your vote is wasted. The Prime Minster is the leader of a party who is elected by the party, not the electorate, and he or she chooses their government from any MPs they like. They can propose laws at will. No one else has a say. The laws then pass through committees not elected by the electorate before being signed off by the House of Lords (unelected) and finally the given Royal Ascent by our unelected head of state.

So just exactly what is it you don't like about the EU with regard to democracy? If democracy is your beef, why not start a bit closer to home?


NO,the European parliament doesn't ahve any power. It's there just to confirm what the technocrats have decided already. Those technocrats have been named by Germany for the most part as Germany can force other smaller states to obey their will being their economic master.

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