64% of TSR want to remain in the EU... share your vote

It's important for corporations and powerful people. And so what about large companies, I'd rather have healthy competitive economy full of smaller domestic businesses, not red tape that stymies entrepreneurs in this country while serving the interests of corporate monopolies. It's not just the economic side, it's the political side. Vote remain if you want, but know that is far from the beacon of progressivism so self-servingly espoused by our elites. It serves unaccountable, power crazed, political classes, and corporate monopolies, creates wage compression and makes the labour market lower down impossible and society crueller. Imagine the future common anti-terror policies, if you think that is unnaccountable and authoritarian. It will simply be a stifling autocrats wet dream.
Please don't be willing to belief all this wisdom or evidence is so objective, it's heavily politicised and espoused by the powerful who think they know best for everyone. Those fear tactics are just odious and should not be rewarded.

I always find it interetsing to see that brexiters want to portray this as a war against 'elites'. Who do the Leavers think Gove and Farage and Johnson are, if not the elite?

This is not a logical debate about Europe, but a defacto election being fought out amongst elites. And the 'elite' that will be left after a Brexit will be an extreme form of that the vast majority of voters in this country would never have voted for in a general election

An extreme form of what they voted for in the election and would never elect? They elected them last year, and 5 years ago, and actually for most of the last century.

I always find it interesting how remain are spending so long now attacking the brexiteers now they're losing, not to mention how they were never able to be positive about the EU.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Well to be honest I'm not taking the TSR vote too seriously because I can imagine a fair few people under age have voted too.

I'm 18 and will be voting remain. To me, theres not much in it - but i don't like how the out campaign targeted immigration and didn't really talk about anything else (until recently)

I always find it interetsing to see that brexiters want to portray this as a war against 'elites'. Who do the Leavers think Gove and Farage and Johnson are, if not the elite?

This is not a logical debate about Europe, but a defacto election being fought out amongst elites. And the 'elite' that will be left after a Brexit will be an extreme form of that the vast majority of voters in this country would never have voted for in a general election

I was simply exploring your comments on the remainers as being 'elites'. Its not one way traffic if the Leave campaign seek to create divisions to polarise people through their rhetoric

we should remain to prevent war? yeah not scaremongering at all.
i pressume people think Germany will start ww3 if so then why are we even in a union with such a temperamental country ?

It isn't scaremongering to suggest caution when considering whether to leave an organisation set up to promote togetherness in the aftermath of 2 major global conflicts originating from Europe. The idea is that when we are tied together in a tangible way we are more likely to find solutions together instead of becoming isolationists.

No reasonable Remainer is saying that if we leave it will cause WW3. Most are saying that if we leave then the potential for future conflicts is increased, whether originating within the current EU countries or outwith.

Even that argument is absurd, the EU are kinda bad at preventing conflicts

Posted from TSR Mobile

Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it absurd.

"The EU stay in campaign say the EU has kept peace in Europe for 70 years with no wars... Erm

No Wars in Europe the last 70 years?

1949 Greek Civil War
1953 Uprising in East Germany
1956 Uprising in Poznań
1956 Hungarian Revolution
1956–1962 Operation Harvest
1958 Opération Corse
1958 First Cod War
1959–2011 Basque conflict
1968 Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia
1968–1998 The Troubles
1970–1984 Unrest in Italy
1972 Bugojno group
1972–1973 Second Cod War
1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
1975–1976 Third Cod War
1988–1994 Nagorno-Karabakh War
1989 Romanian Revolution
1990–1991 Soviet attacks on Lithuanian border posts
1991 January Events
1991 The Barricades
1991 Ten-Day War (Slovenia)
1991–1992 Georgian war against Russo-Ossetian alliance
1991–1993 Georgian Civil War
1991–1995 Croatian War of Independence
1992 Transnistria War
1992 East Prigorodny Conflict
1992–1993 First Georgian war against Russo-Abkhazian alliance
1992–1995 Bosnian War
1993 Cherbourg incident
1993 Russian constitutional crisis
1994–1996 First Chechen War
1997 Albanian civil war of 1997
1998–1999 Kosovo War
1998–present Dissident Irish Republican campaign
1998 Second Georgian war against Russian-Abkhazian alliance
1999 War of Dagestan
1999–2009 Second Chechen War

Great job EU 👍🏻"

But why not look at just one, Bosnia, where the EU were supposed to be sorting everything out and well, they ended up having to basically say "NATO, UNSC, please sort this out for us"

Posted from TSR Mobile

"I shall also add to the previous point on there not having been any real wars between major states for 70 years, that it is an absolutely unprecedented period of such peace, with most similar peace times collapsing after a few decades, even when there have been major treaties put into place to try to prevent it."

That quote I'm sure you will recognise as your own.

So you feel clearly feel able to describe the past 70 years as one of unprecedented peace to support your views on nuclear weapons, but when it comes to describing the past 70 years for a discussion on the EU it suddenly becomes absolute carnage?

If you want to quote it use the quote function.

Oh, like putting things in, er, quote marks.

Posted from TSR Mobile

If you want to quote it use the quote function.

If the EU is such a great arbiter of peace then surely it should be dealing with domestic and low level regional conflict, the scales where interdependence and high level deterrence don't work, something it has demonstrated incapable of.

I'm unable to use the quote function given the forum in which you made that post. But here's the link:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=60920685&postcount=51



The EU was set up to help secure lasting peace between those countries in the EU. Some of those conflicts could hardly be called domestic could they?
Compare the conflicts between EU countries since the birth of the EU/EEC and the conflicts between those same countries in the equivalent period of time prior to that. Not a bad record.

You can huff and puff all you like about how the EU hasn't managed to eradicate conflict in countries outwith the EU and therefore has done nothing for peace, but that is simply your opinion, and one which I disagree with.

With a MILITARY alliance covering most of western Europe, a greater level of interdependency between states, even with the EU aside, the threat of nuclear war among those who are not part of the alliance and pose a threat of substantial conflict, we are in a Europe of democracies rather than dictatorships, and a global trend of less conflict in per state terms, per capita terms, casualties, casualties per capita, etc. As far as I know the only metric in which there has been an increase is absolute number, which is expected when there are nearly twice as many states.

It's not just Europe that is seeing greater peace and prosperity. Switzerland is not in the EU, it's not been at war for nearly 2 centuries; no post war conflict in South America by the standards of "the EU ensures peace" bar the odd border skirmish, nor has there been war in North America for well over a century, bar a bit of attempted balloon bombing in WWII.

Where have the post war conflicts been? Where there are despots and dictators mostly.

And while they are not all domestic on that list, a very significant proportion are and the other half still fit into the very low level regional category.

Posted from TSR Mobile

"I think we should vote leave and take back control"