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Labour MP Jo Cox killed in shooting incident in West Yorkshire

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Original post by DorianGrayism
Try remembering what you are talking about.

We are talking about refugees who settle in the EU, get an EU passport and then come across the border.

That is why I said why would a Refugee get an EU passport in Germany after working for years so he can come to the UK to get welfare.

It makes no sense.


They may already have family in the UK, they may believe that there is a better living standard for them, Germany may reduce their welfare payments (which they will have to do if the current trend continues, which I think it will).
Remain odds have improved since Jo Cox's death.

Screen Shot 2016-06-17 at 21.30.00.jpg

Now 64 : 36 - after having narrowed to 58 :42
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by The_Opinion
They may already have family in the UK, they may believe that there is a better living standard for them, Germany may reduce their welfare payments (which they will have to do if the current trend continues, which I think it will).


You can't get Citizenship or a passport without a job.

Therefore, if you are on the German welfare system, you can't then move to the UK.
Original post by jneill
Remain odds have improved since Jo Cox's death.Screen Shot 2016-06-17 at 21.30.00.jpgNow 64 : 36 - after having narrowed to 58 :42
I don't know how much I would use odds in this case. As for something such as this, people may bet on the outcome that they don't want. For example someone who wants to leave could bet on staying, so that at least if the result is bad, he or she wins a lot of money, or if the result is to leave, he or she would happily lose that money, as they are pleased with the result.
Original post by DorianGrayism
You can't get Citizenship or a passport without a job.

Therefore, if you are on the German welfare system, you can't then move to the UK.



You do realise that rules can change right? Also, your beloved EU is trying to force other nations to take the migrants, such nations as a work around could well accept them and then give them citizenship, knowing that they will leave their country as soon as they get the chance to.
Original post by The_Opinion
You do realise that rules can change right? Also, your beloved EU is trying to force other nations to take the migrants, such nations as a work around could well accept them and then give them citizenship, knowing that they will leave their country as soon as they get the chance to.


I don't see any reason why they would change the rules. No one has proposed a change to the rule.

Lol. I wish racist Eastern Europeans were that smart.
Original post by DorianGrayism
I don't see any reason why they would change the rules. No one has proposed a change to the rule.Lol. I wish racist Eastern Europeans were that smart.
A pretty obvious reason, to get rid of them.
Original post by viddy9
This was a terrorist attack committed by a right-wing, nativist extremist. This despicable man had links to at least two far-right organisations, had Nazi objects inside his house, and the police are saying that his far-right links are a "priority line of inquiry".

According to the police, this was an "isolated but targeted" attack, and witnesses are understood to have confirmed that he shouted "Britain first" or "put Britain first".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/jo-cox-killing-suspect-far-right-links-a-priority-line-of-inquiry


Yes, I've seen the Yorkshire police press release. Priority line of inquiry means that they don't know. Therefore you don't know, and I don't know. Therefore we cannot make, with any validity, assertions about his motives. I've already addressed the other points you made. Please read my comments.
Original post by The_Opinion
A pretty obvious reason, to get rid of them.


Except that they haven't done that.
Original post by Anno007
Yes, I've seen the Yorkshire police press release. Priority line of inquiry means that they don't know. Therefore you don't know, and I don't know. Therefore we cannot make, with any validity, assertions about his motives. I've already addressed the other points you made. Please read my comments.


Yeh, it didn't stop you from making assertions about his mental health from causing him to kill someone.
Original post by DorianGrayism
I don't see any reason why they would change the rules. No one has proposed a change to the rule.


You don't see any reason why they would change the rules? I see a lot of reasons.

The main ones being that these countries can give citizenship and a passport to anyone they choose, and knowing that these people want to get to countries like France and Britain they could simply give them their citizenship, maybe even buy them a bus ticket, and send them on their way.

Quick and easy way to get rid of them
Original post by DorianGrayism
Except that they haven't done that.
I have clearly won the point, so you are now admitting that they can do that, now you have switched to that they have not done it yet, which is true.That is because they still have Merkel at the helm with her naïve idealistic view that these people are going to become like regular German citizens and all get jobs at a rate no different to the ethnic population, which isn't going to happen.
Original post by Anno007
Yes, I've seen the Yorkshire police press release. Priority line of inquiry means that they don't know. Therefore you don't know, and I don't know. Therefore we cannot make, with any validity, assertions about his motives. I've already addressed the other points you made. Please read my comments.


We can make reasonable inferences. Two new witnesses have confirmed he was screaming "put Britain first". Tally that with what we know about his neo-Nazi connections and it's not hard to make a logical inference about his motivations.

Just as it wasn't hard to deduce the motivations of the Orlando terrorist once we found out he'd pledged allegiance to ISIS and had previously been investigated for his relationship with Islamic extremists
Original post by viddy9
Right, so eyewitness confirmation of his comments as he made the attack, the fact that he's campaigned with Britain First, don't count as any evidence? Of course they do. We should continue to update our credence in the notion that this was a terrorist attack as more information comes along, but right now >50% credence in it being a terrorist attack is entirely justified.


I personally think the neo-Nazi connections and the reports about screaming "put Britain first" are very relevant.

But can you plausibly argue that if only a few days ago you were arguing the opposite side with regards to the Orlando shooting, denying the link to ideology and playing up the mental illness angle just as the right-wing is doing now to the Cox shooter?
Original post by Thutmose-III
You don't see any reason why they would change the rules? I see a lot of reasons.

The main ones being that these countries can give citizenship and a passport to anyone they choose, and knowing that these people want to get to countries like France and Britain they could simply give them their citizenship, maybe even buy them a bus ticket, and send them on their way.

Quick and easy way to get rid of them


Oh yeh because the French and British wouldn't be able to see through that. It is genius.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Now, if you have any evidence to present that Britain First has encouraged violence I'd be happy to see it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/britain-first-muslim-elected-officials_uk_574352c4e4b0e71ef36d9617

From their own Press Release "Britain First is about to launch a direct action campaign against Muslim elected officials, at all levels of politics." this includes Sadiq Khan (London Mayor)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by DorianGrayism
Oh yeh because the French and British wouldn't be able to see through that. It is genius.


So what if they see through it? Seeing through it is irrelevant. If someone has an EU passport they have to accept them into the country under EU law. It's really that simple.
Original post by The_Opinion
I have clearly won the point, so you are now admitting that they can do that, now you have switched to that they have not done it yet, which is true.That is because they still have Merkel at the helm with her naïve idealistic view that these people are going to become like regular German citizens and all get jobs at a rate no different to the ethnic population, which isn't going to happen.


You must be pretty stupid if you think a Polish Government is going to hand out free passports to refugees to abuse Freedom of moment.

If it was so easy then they would have done it.
Original post by DorianGrayism
Yeh, it didn't stop you from making assertions about his mental health from causing him to kill someone.


Firstly, tu quoque is a fallacy and won't get you anywhere. Secondly, even if it were a false assertion, your claims would still be wrong. Thirdly, his history of mental illness is a fact that we know, and I never said that it was the cause of this attack.
Original post by DorianGrayism
You must be pretty stupid if you think a Polish Government is going to hand out free passports to refugees to abuse Freedom of moment.

If it was so easy then they would have done it.


How many recent refugees are there in Poland? Oh that's right....they don't go there.

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